COGG BBS

Per the recent changelog: The rate of bowstring durability loss on use is now dependent on the force of the launcher. This rate of durability loss is lower across the board than the previous flat rate.

@Talyn The best way to get a weapon's damage max is to hit a vagrant's limbs until they go unconscious. Your attacks while unconscious hit for max and they have no resistances.

I bought an ash crossbow for testing, and its DF is in fact 94. This is more reliable and math-free, and you can apply the formula safely from there to check if it's right.

Let's look at the crossbow combo.

(Aiming for left arm to prevent kills)
You lower your shoulder and charge at an infested vagrant! Off(d600(1x)):542 vs Def(d100(-2x)):21
You loose a bolt... 32 damage, left arm, 2s
You slash at an infested vagrant ... 58 damage, left arm, 3s qstrike
You slash at an infested vagrant... 89 damage, left arm, 6s normal attack.

So the crossbow low-rolled, which happens, but potentially landing an extra 90 damage in a single tackle can easily mean the difference between a kill and not getting a kill. The combo is finnicky enough that I just don't care to do it, however. You can't shoot a crossbow while holding something, so to pull it off the crossbow has to be in your left hand. Tackle, shoot, get melee weapon, qstrike, strike. Gather, cock, load, put sword away, next enemy. It also knocks 31 points off my dodge through weight. I'd rather wear armor than carry one around. Still, it's an option I'd consider for killing a PC, if not NPCs. Puncture damage for crossbows would make them good enough that I'd more seriously consider carrying one... For killing PCs. Ease-of-use is just too low for grinding.

@Rias I think the issue with bows has never been their damage. Fragile bowstrings, arrow weight, arrow durability, having to deal with ammogathering in the first place all contribute towards making the weapon less appealing. Longbow's 7 second sub-100 damage shots are nowhere near worth it though.

That aside, I find in practice I don't land that many oneshots with the javelin vs. Liberi, and I don't think I've ever gotten one with my preferred throwing knives, despite that their potential max damages are both a good chunk over 100. Damage mitigation is pretty potent. I exclusively fight the duelists, and aim for their unarmored heads. It's not unusual to damage them into the 80s and 90s, but I've been watching for oneshots and can't recall any. It's one thing to have the potential and another to actually land the kill, especially when armor of any kind comes into play. I can theoretically oneshot with my riversteel rapier, but it's like a one in five hundred chance before rerolls come into play, higher once they do.

I like where javelins are at because they give the less damage-blessed classes moments to shine while not being too overbearing. You're going to see occasional hits over 100, but more often than not it'll be after they've been hit once or twice and were in finishing range anyway. Personally, I feel like melee weapons could stand to be a little stronger across the board... But this is in the current endgame zone. They perform pretty well outside Valeria.

If crossbows gained the puncture damage, I would argue for their max damage to be reduced to 80, rather than increase the required RT for cocking or firing.

Just my thought: How about keep javelins where they are, but put (create) atlatls in the game that can be used for increased accuracy and the full damage potential javelins have now? If you want to throw a javelin by hand, you can, but you don't get the full potential of the weapon. Atlatls could even make a bit more RP sense for some.

edit: changed the word thought from the word idea

Rias wrote: ↑Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:26 am
Thanks for bringing the bowstring durability thing to my attention - they're definitely degrading much too quickly, so I'll beef those up a bit. It's right here near the top of my current to-do list now. Aside from that, I think bows are okay? Longbows hit like a poleaxe, although with pierce which is a more resisted damage type, of course. I'd say that serves somewhat as a countering factor to their various ranged advantages (bypassing various defenses, sniping, hitting flying creatures, etc).

Slings were never brought up here, but it might be appropriate if slings took a little durability damage with each use - probably on par or less than what a shortbow does to a bowstring.