Upcoming item count and storage limitations

[Lexx416]

I've found the limits (for vaults and inn rooms, haven't tried out farms!) pretty reasonable so far but I've got a couple of comments for some of the pain points I've encountered. I do think handcarts taking up 400 space is kind of rough - my main character keeps one primarily for emergency purposes (like body dragging) or if I need to much a bunch of stuff around in a pinch, but I'd much rather keep it totally empty instead of having to juggle stuff around my vault if I wanted to use the handcart in a pinch. I don't think the space a handcart takes up necessarily needs to be shrunk, but if I could store an empty handcart either at the stables or in some virtualized room I can't personally access at the bank (probably with some storage & retrieval fee) that would be an ideal middle ground I think.

I also think being able to rent more space for your vault might be good. I've been a bit hesitant on suggesting that, because I'm not sure of the best way to implement it in a way that isn't too much of a stretch of the imagination (the idea of people's vaults magically growing in size makes me sad), but something like allowing us to rent a finite number of "extra rooms" that are technically in a different part of the bank (and smaller, and only accessible from the main vault room) might be a good fix? So maybe you could add a maximum extra 800 or so floor space spread out amongst 4 rooms or so or 600 spread out amongst 3 rooms (so 200 more space each), all accessible from your main vault. That might get weird and fiddly and be more work than it's worth dealing with now, but maybe something for the future (and a good riln sink, if you make extra extra room more expensive to add on to the last, and have them be rented by the week).

Finally, currently (as of last night when I checked at least) when you use the CONTENTS command in a room that's exactly full, you don't see the floor space total for your room. It'd be nice if we could (and if we could see the floor space used up by non-containers in the room, like the decorate things we can hang on the wall for example).

[Teri]

I don't feel item capacity addresses item counts in full at the moment. It does reduce items, and it is reasonable to decrease storage spaces from unlimited and so on to less. I would like to know what the idealized item count is per character. I'm curious what current item counts are for those who have cleared to current capacity and would like ways for us to count items in rooms easier. I know we often ask what the top 5 are overall.

Decreased item capacity does decrease the ability to store, but I find it leads to targeting higher size items than decreasing in general as I attempt to clear things. I don't think a strict item count would work right now and/or I wouldn't support item count limits until the ability to virtualize and bundle more items is possible.
What I would love is a mix of storage within the vaults where I can access things but less conveniently if virtualized, alike to dye cases. Part of the fun of lockboxes is collecting things, and these storage methods could involve being a riln sink, alongside further space in storage as a riln sink Per Lexx's suggestion. Virtualized specialized storage for larger things if capacity remains or becomes a hybrid with item count. Display cases for shells and collectables have been discussed, but I'd also love a filing cabinet or desk I could toss a collection of letters into instead of using a folder.

Handcarts themselves being used as mass storage could be addressed with reduced item counts while keeping their capacity for large lumber items so it isn't unfriendly for crafters or scavengers carrying lockboxes. (I could fit 80 before, I think) An additional idea for crafters would be virtualized storage case for crafting components as they can be very numerous if they aren't bundled the future.

I know housing has been on hold until item counts have been addressed but our first housing could start with whatever item count you find suitable, 50, 100, ramshackle hut that needs upgrades (I'd honestly love starting with a crappy house to need repairs from a crafter or cleaning from myself). Likely everyone wants the game to run well and wants to impact the server less if wanting to play. Player housing could also involve recent current inn room changes of what room you can rent can be limited once the housing is repaired to a certain 'size' and or item limits. Similar to tiny inn rooms right now if one already has a main inn room. Another idea would be how long one can rent an inn room for a period of time is reduced so they aren't used as additional storage but can be used for temporary gathering of characters. A weeks' worth of renting possible in a month as a concept.

I was also wondering, do shelved or retired character items counts stay active or virtualized? If the community continues to grow items counts will increase that way if they aren't. I wonder if an inactive virtualizing of accounts after a certain time limit of no log in would assist if it were possible to implement, with a log in ending it.

[artus]

I have something of a calculatin to make today, and that's coming from another player's experience which I at one point also did have, thogh while room contents wasn't a thing yet.
A watermelon or pumpkin plot can yield multiple, each weighing something close to pounds at least, or even more.
A handcart can hold 400, and 10 pumpkin plots can yield more then 18 pumpkins, which means you need to drag the cart back and forth multiple times to sell them, each cartful draining a lot of your energy. This doesn't count when a town market is full, of course.
Now, if someone plants 50 plots of pumpkins, it means a huuuuge number of trips they have to make, the energy cost, the item weight, the food cost and all that, and the frustration should they end up stuck, unable to get their cart anywhere because the content of the next room blocks the path for their cart to move.
While I have nothing personally against room contents and the wellbeing of the mud as a whole, I'm concerned for those whose playstyle have to be penalized by the uneven item weight and amount in the game that gives them more difficulty and stress just trying to manage stuff they never had to deal with with this much issue before the change, and may as well agree with Terry that the change did happen too soon when things weren't balanced out before it.
Could farm item weight be in consideration for adjustment? It was already a pain before the change and now it's even worse It doesn't help when sometimes you harvest stuff on the ground accidentally and it takes up space and doesn't let your cart fit in because they're there.

[Jilliana]

Is it intentional that handcarts not be allowed to be pushed into tanning workrooms?

[artus]

This one is very strange to report, and also one I don't know what to do with. I don't even know how to explain it, so I'll just lay out everything I have in this room here. I'm bypassing this by hiding them in the room because I can't do anything else with any of them. Context is, I have no well on the farm.

[Woodland Farm] (OutPlDt) Wee Hours, Chilly, Clear, Calm
Structures: a section of pine fence (x4) and a mismatched-wood woodshed.
You also notice an aspen crate (hidden) and a squat pine bucket of clear water (hidden).

Now:
You take a closer look at a squat pine bucket of clear water (hidden) in the area ...
It has clear water in it. It's full.

In the aspen crate (hidden) you see a cheap copper pot (empty), a pine threshing flail, a bloodstem winnowing basket, a cheap copper skillet (empty), a tiny ovoid pale-gray rimeveil seed (bundled:66), a bronze saw, some copper nails (bundled:20), and a cedar-hafted copper hoe.
There is plenty of room left in the aspen crate (hidden).

In the mismatched-wood woodshed you see a long aspen plank (x8), a long hewn pine timber (x2), a long hewn cedar timber (x2), and a small crooked fir branch (bundled:52).
There is some room left in the mismatched-wood woodshed.

The following structures are taking up plots of this farmland:
a mismatched-wood woodshed (4 plots)
a mismatched-wood woodshed (4 plots)
an aspen crate (hidden) (2 plots)


Now, if I get one of the two, either the crate or the bucket up, I can't drop it back.
I don't know how the space is calculate, but it makes someone who has plenty of tools and no well on the farm want to cry. I may get a case of bug abuse here and tbh I never want to use a bug to bypass it by hiding stuff in the room, but I really don't know what to do about all this.

Someone suggested dump bucket helps with watering. I haven't tried it yet. Still though, there may be something wonky with calculation in the code somewhere with plots+weight+item count.

[Rias]

After seeing various issues with traffic jams and whatnot, I've decided to try making room space limits only apply in specific cases, rather than as a global default. Please note that the janitor will continue janitoring as normal, and items stored outside safe areas are vulnerable to theft both by PCs or NPCs. There are a lot of bandits, Liberi, infested, and other scavengers out there, so leaving stuff in an out-of-the-way spot is not a good idea just because it's not frequented by player characters!

Types of rooms that will continue to have space limits include:
- Private living spaces (inn rooms, player homes, dorms, etc.)
- Farms
- Bank vaults
- Specific rooms that have been assigned a maximum space level for whatever reason (the treehouse, branches up in a tree, a ship's crow's nest, a small cave, a cramped hallway or tunnel, etc).

To be perfectly clear: This isn't meant to allow anyone to find new opportunities to store items, but rather is meant to prevent some nasty inconveniences of moving items around, working in public workshops, and so forth. Items left outside designated storage rooms are still in danger of being janitored or pillaged!

[Jilliana]

Thought I'd put in my two cents on Artus' issue.

Seems it's his farm only that's having an issue with storage of any sort. He's got lots of available space but dropping a bundle seems to give the impression that he's got no space. It's treating it like a vault.


I got this same bundle and dropped it in 2 other farms, one of which is at full capacity. I was able to hide and drop as well as normal drop the bundle with no negative results.

Hope this sheds some light on his problem!

[Rias]

Woodsheds have a huge capacity so they take up a huge amount of floor space (more than two handcarts' worth). Since that particular farmland is the default smallest size, the woodshed is taking up all the space. The available farm soil/structure space and the room floor space systems are separate so there's going to be some confusion there, that's something to look into. I've updated the CONTENTS command to show each item's floor space contribution on farms.

[artus]

Could item count not be based on how much it weighs or at least have room containers that aren't furniture be handled differently somehow so it doesn't act claustrophobia inducing? It looks like even the smallest of branches have problem and every container, room included, count too when it should have had its own space and all. It makes for a confusion and really hard item management. I honestly have items in awkward containers everywhere at this point because I don't know where else to put it to make it less awkward, a crate in the wardrobe, for example. becaise tjere's nowhere else left. I can possibly dump everything in one container messily but it's a nightmare for those who want to organize or those who keep forgetting where they put what.

[Rias]

I can empathize with the hit to finer organizational granularity. I'm going through it on my own characters, having merged the purposes of some of my own vault storage containers. Easing up on things for the sake of multi-container organization would be an exponential step back with the overall item bloat situation which is the greater concern, though.