Upcoming item count and storage limitations

[Rilulth]

I mentioned it in Discord already to you, but you were planning on display cases that digitize our collectibles (statues, figurines, certain gems) which will help some of us that do like to collect nicnacs rather than sell them.

I will also second the armour stand Artus mentioned. Perhaps we could just add one to inn rooms, or just have it exempt from the enthusiastic cleaners.

[Taliaferro]

How soon are you thinking about putting in these changes? Of course I'll understand entirely if you're not ready to give even a ballpark idea yet, but my character's farm has got to be a big offender, here, and his inn room, too, so I'd like to know if I need to start scrambling to do some serious winnowing-down of what we can and can't live without!

It will likely make a difference in how I play the game, but I imagine I speak for everyone when I say that any sacrifices will be worth the benefit. The last time such a change was implemented, it made a significant and very welcome impact on the performance of the game.

[Firerose]

I second, or third, these:

Armor stands.
Weapon Stands. (Not sure how much they would realistically hold? something for bows/crossbows?"
A desk of some sort. (Folders, inks, quills, scroll cases, books of all types, blank labels/papers, writing charcoal, etc.)

What do you have in mind for people with multiple workhorses and handcarts? (I'm stopping at two; even that feels like more than what I need most of the time.)
What about logging sleds?

Please, could we have containers for figurine collections, shells, gems, jewelry? Not sure if wardrobes, dressers, etc., could be set to virtualize their contents?

I admit to not understanding how large the database is, how much space items take up, whether they take up more space while in containers. The only experience I have is with object-oriented code... and those databases were tiny, from what I saw. Is Python just ... larger, somehow?

You don't have to answer any of these questions on here if you don't want to, though maybe it would help people understand a bit more of what you're up against.

Could cedar bark strips be bundled, please?
What about art satchels and other containers being virtualizing, somehow, so you could put things in, but then take them out at will, like with dye cases? Any container could be this, in theory, I just don't know whether it's possible.

This isn't the place, so please forgive me... but could we please have a way to make cloth automatically? Samem with cedar barkcloth fibers.

I'm worried most about the handcart situation--not sure what's coming there, and I'll be honest, I'm the first to blame myself whether or not I am one of the heaviest bloaters

All of this makes sense, in the grand scheme of things, so I appreciate you working so hard to help the game run better.

[Rias]

A few more updates to curb item bloat, per the changelog:
- It is no longer possible to rent rooms at more than one inn at the same time.
- It is now possible to rent cancel to cancel an inn room's prepaid rent time. (It will still be considered rented until the next noon checkout.)

A general note: When the janitor starts janitoring some rooms more thoroughly, it won't automatically start eating peoples' items who already have stuff in said rooms. We'll figure something out to make sure people don't lose items just because they didn't realize the update happened, or a character was shelved, or something like that. Most likely, the items will be sent to bank vaults.

How soon are you thinking about putting in these changes?

Very soon! If you'd like to have more control over where your items are sent rather than having the system automatically toss them all somewhere, I'd start working on that right away.

Armor stands allowed in inn rooms: This was suggested at the roundtable, I think it's a good idea. With the number of stands limited.
Desks: Inns should already have tables in them, which should serve well enough if you want a place to put your records/writing materials other than in a trunk or footlocker or such.

While I'll certainly apply "virtualization" when I can, I don't want it to start sounding like a magic cure that can just be applied to anything. It only works for items that only need only the barest of details kept, don't need to be moved around frequently, and don't need to be regularly tracked/polled/etc. by the system. If I could make all items become magically more space-efficient when put into containers than they were when not in containers, I certainly would! Unfortunately, it's not that simple.

[Serity]

A few more updates to curb item bloat, per the changelog:
- It is no longer possible to rent rooms at more than one inn at the same time.
- It is now possible to rent cancel to cancel an inn room's prepaid rent time. (It will still be considered rented until the next noon checkout.)

I'm going to be honest; my kneejerk reaction is that I dislike this change, although I understand what you're going for and understand the reasons why it was done. The reason I hate it is that - quite honestly, sometimes you are just not at home when it's time to log off, and having to run back across the map to get your morale bonus is a massive pain. If I can't log off at the Hanged Man (or wherever else out-of-the-way-place that has inns), or log back on there, I'm far, far less likely to spend time there.

To that end, I'd propose setting an inn as your primary inn, and if you stay at an inn that isn't your primary inn, you can only rent one day at a time - and when that time is up, it throws everything and everyone out just as it normally does. You can rent again, but not until after that one day has expired. It'll still let people rent when they're not at home, but the inconvenience of having to move everything back into those inns would seriously deter anyone trying to use it in a hoarding manner.

[Rias]

Hrm, yeah ... I think something like that could work.

[Teri]

Reading the mention of inn floors, would reducing the space help? The Hanged Man has only 50 on the floor if I recall vs 100 for the town inns. It could be set to something far smaller, but still let some fav floor items remain. I was wondering how the janitored floors would be handled for characters that are shelved/currently unplayed if their floors do get janitored?
Storage items like crates etc could be blocked from being used potentially too, or increase in how much space they actually take, say a coffer taking up 20 items worth of, or something. (throwing a number out there just to write one down.)
The non-primary inn could also be very, very tiny as an alternative to a single day. Space for a certain amount of items/size and a single or limited storage.

[artus]

Actually, how many plots does a room have? The plot mechanic is interesting because say, a wardrobe takes one plot and it's already in the room, and a table takes the other, a footlocker takes the other blah blah blah. Rather than making janitors mess with our private properties within say, minutes of let's say me having my net drop, log in half an hour later to see the barrel I worked on before that gone thanks to super dutiful inn staffs who and deserve a complainfor being nosy to the town council (that's a joke), could we use the plot system with inn rooms to limit space?
The thing I'm worried about right now is something like say, I do something in my inn and my net kills the connection and the light goes out for hours or even minutes, the work that is supposed to be done goes poof. I usually work in inn rooms and go idle there. The likelyhood of my net dying with my stuff still left all over is pretty likely. Would it be possible to at least make janitor time for inn rooms longer than normal janitor, if not anything?

[Maina]

Honestly, I feel like inn rooms shouldn't be used for bulk storage. They're living spaces, and they have a ton of containers in them already. Vaults should be used for the bulk of player storage.

Since we're suggesting things, I would suggest not allowing any containers to be placed (but maybe having inn rooms come with an armor stand) and maybe allow like ten loose items on the floor for when people need to move stuff around. No janitoring, but just... heavily restrict what can be added to an inn room outside of existing containers. I mean how much free floor space do these fully-furnished living spaces have anyway?

I would also not mind a previous iteration's method of handling vaults, too, where you have to buy storage expansions rather than being effectively unlimited if bloat remains an issue.

[Rias]

Reading the mention of inn floors, would reducing the space help? [...] Storage items like crates etc could be blocked from being used potentially too, or increase in how much space they actually take, say a coffer taking up 20 items worth of, or something.
The non-primary inn could also be very, very tiny as an alternative to a single day. Space for a certain amount of items/size and a single or limited storage.

Those are great ideas! The floor space of inn rooms could be reduced (dramatically) and still allow for a few extra items people want to bring in, such as an armor stand, or an extra trunk or something. (And wall hangings, like wreaths. Winter Solstice is saved!) Then the janitor might not need to strike. Containers do take up a silly small amount of space, but if only they are increased then folks will just drop individual items straight onto the floor, so it'll probably need to be a more sweeping floor-space update than just containers/furniture.

Ohhh. No morale bonus for sleeping in a messy room with a bunch of non-furniture items all over the floor ...

I still think I'd prevent dragging items into inn rooms and probably update a number of the larger furniture items to be drag-only (or heaved into a cart, but carts can't get into inn rooms anyway so we're safe there) rather than pick-up-able. I'm thinking wardrobes, dressers, tables, crates, footlockers.

And I love the idea of budget second-inn-rooms that have no floor space and maybe a single dresser or something.

Honestly, I feel like inn rooms shouldn't be used for bulk storage. They're living spaces, and they have a ton of containers in them already. Vaults should be used for the bulk of player storage.

You're speaking my language!

I would also not mind a previous iteration's method of handling vaults, too, where you have to buy storage expansions rather than being effectively unlimited if bloat remains an issue.

The above-mentioned updates to the amount of room space items take up would affect vaults as well (and farms). I'm tempted to add some "messy vault/farm" penalties or inconveniences too, and encourage the use of storage containers (and having the containers take up more space). Having expansion upgrades if vaults are then deemed too small would be an option.