Upcoming item count and storage limitations

[IndomitableHeart]

Okay, I'm somewhat confused. How can a container which has a floorspace of 100 actually take up more than that amount of floorspace? These containers don't expand, right? A wardrobe, which has a floorspace count of 100, for example, stays the same size, with the same item capacity, no matter what, right? So how do I see:
an aspen wardrobe (open) (floorspace: 161)
I mean, wood expands, but it doesn't magically become larger than it ever was. A dresser is a dresser, right? So how does it take up more floorspace than it's actual size?
I'd like some advice here. This is in my vault. My vault currently has everything in containers. Everything. And I am still over limit, but I'm not sure I should be:
You see the following items of note here:
a chestnut logging sled labeled "Tzafrir's Tree Holder, 2918" (floorspace: 100)
a hinged cedar footlocker (open) (floorspace: 101)
a hinged rough aspen footlocker labeled "Crafting Things" (open) (floorspace: 100)
an aspen wardrobe (open) (floorspace: 100)
an aspen wardrobe (open) (floorspace: 161)
(562 of 550 floor space used, -12 space left.)
There's no way I can organize that any better, I don't think.

[artus]

Honestly, and this is not meant to induce the old item bloat problem, I feel like containers may not need to expand. I'm not sure if it's a bug, but what good does it make to craft a container only to never use it not because you don't want to but because you can't. If you have over capacity containers, like somehow fitting what you shouldn't have bee able to fit in a container and it expands, it makes more sense. But containers expanding because there are stuff inside is...very odd, if not a little, if not somewhat. Somehow I think inn rooms do it exactly that way and it's perfect. Farms, on the other hand. I think vaults do i the same way too now and it's kinda alright. I'm not sure how @heart managed to overstuff containers, not sure how full that 161 is, so I can't really tell. It may give people a bit more room and doesn't necessarily have to contribute to item bloat because you can't really fit anything else big anywhere anyway. Also, I wonder if the plot system on containers/furnitures bug farmlands out. It should not though. It calculates correctly on the floor but items inside don't.

[Rias]

an aspen wardrobe (open) (floorspace: 161)

Various furniture capacities were reduced a little while back, so that's likely what resulted in this one being over-filled. We didn't want to automatically remove things from peoples' resulting over-filled containers, but they'll still take up additional space for being over-filled. Feel free to imagine them being cartoonishly distorted as they struggle not to burst!

[IndomitableHeart]

Another quick question. I assume that given the extremely low 550 limit of vaults, we're no longer supposed to store handcarts in vaults now? That's the same limit as an inn room, and carts can't go there. So I assume that you are intending to make a rule that carts are no longer allowed to be stored in vaults? Does this mean we're only ever supposed to have them on our farms?

[Rias]

I don't think there's any need for a specific rule to prevent storing handcarts in a storage vault, since they contribute to the floor space limits like everything else. I liked the ideas posted earlier in this thread for the ability to store one empty handcart (and probably also a logging sled) in a stables so they're still easily available for their intended purpose of moving items around while not increasing overall storage capacity.

I wouldn't count on farms as increased general storage space in the long term, handcarts or otherwise. Farms are supposed to be for farming, not storage. Construction seems to be the main need for large storage capacity on farms, so I'm looking into an update to how construction works that won't require all the materials to be present at the initial build time. There are a good number of characters who have farms primarily or even solely to serve as extra storage space, and that's not what we want the farming system to be.

[IndomitableHeart]

I think you're perhaps misunderstanding. I'm not suggesting that we use farms for storage spaces. I'm not advocating that at all. I'm asking whether you intend for us to not store handcarts when not in use, in the vault? I'm saying, because a vault only has a limit of 550, carts cannot be stored there. My current vault space shows 500/550 (I figured out what was expanding the wardrobe and fixed it). But if I, for example, were to store my cart in my vault, my space would be at 900/550. So I cannot store my cart there while I'm doing other activities that don't use it. that's my question. Where should they be kept when they're not being used. I hope that made sense.

[Rias]

They do take up a lot of space which makes storing them in a vault not the most ideal if you want to keep them empty, but it's not impossible (550 - 400 (handcart) = 150 space left over for other stuff). For the time being you can leave your cart on your farm if you have one. Expect the previously-mentioned stables single empty cart storage feature Actually Soon(tm).

[Rias]

Per the changelog: The Shadgard Stables yard and Mistral Lake Stables yard will now store a single empty handcart, logging sled, or similar for characters.

There are signs in each of those rooms, and each are also flagged with "cart storage" next to the room name. The sign/messaging mentions the carts potentially being put to local use while left in their care, which is only there for the purpose of ICly explaining why these facilities are willing to store peoples' carts indefinitely for such a small fee.

[Lexx416]

Per the changelog: The Shadgard Stables yard and Mistral Lake Stables yard will now store a single empty handcart, logging sled, or similar for characters.

There are signs in each of those rooms, and each are also flagged with "cart storage" next to the room name. The sign/messaging mentions the carts potentially being put to local use while left in their care, which is only there for the purpose of ICly explaining why these facilities are willing to store peoples' carts indefinitely for such a small fee.

Greatly appreciate this change! Vault space management is way easier not having to juggle containers in and out of the handcart with little to no floor space left - thank you!

[adresin]

Just FYI, the containers being a bit bigger than they should be is not just with containers that got shrunk down. I've seen this happen with my handcart, after emptying and refilling it even. It doesn't expand by much, but it's enough to cause major issues when trying to move it through a mine with supports. I've seen it with things like crates too. I'm sorry I can't give more info than that, but if you take a handcart and fill it up completely, then check contents, I'm sure you'll see it for yourself. I did bug this, by the way.

Speaking of mines, if this hasn't already been done and apologies if I already posted this, but I personally think their space needs some serious rethinking. Same with places like the bank. These are areas not used for storage, and it creates a lot of hassle when you've got two people with handcarts or mine carts trying to maneuver around. I mean, people have had to move the minecarts elsewhere because no one could get anywhere with them sitting at the mine entrance. If a mine room has supports, that shrinks available space even more and if there's even a single chunk of stone on the floor that won't fit in a cart, you can have a complete blockage.

I must say I'm saddened to think that handcarts won't be able to be put on farms at some point. Sometimes it's just not possible to use up everything after mining, or some other activity the cart has been used for, so for crafters that's going to force us to keep a lot of our vault space empty for said cart, or risk it being stolen. I get trying to cut down on hording, I really do. But with floor space already being so restricted, I'd hope that a single handcart of stuff on a farm would be reasonable. Not to mention, what if you need the handcart there to load things from the farm into for taking to sell? I do like the stable addition though! I have to wonder, is it one of each, or just one? Like can you store one cart and one sled?

Reading this, it might come across as harsh or bitchy, and it's not intended to. I'm just typing as I think and having trouble with words.