artus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 3:02 pm
Let's say if a display case will be a thing, how am I supposed to make it fit within the space of 520/550 capacity my room can hold? The 30 is not enough to do anything and I have no idea where the 20 comes from.
Everything in a room that's not a container still counts towards floorspace; so the basin, wreath, bouquet, bed, chair, etc.
A display case will likely be dynamic like a dye case rather than an actual proper container, so it could be quite a bit smaller in terms of actual space used.
I guess we may have to wait until housing is a thing to even dream about having a purpose to get carpenters to make a wardrobe for any reason then, because it doesn't fit anywhere and I can't drag my footlocker out of my room description. No container is full. I honestly have really hard time sorting now where what stuff go because I'm just bad at organization in general and used to be able to use room containers to sort it. But when Rias said you'd rather have a full container than multiple half full, I feel like the room space is forcing me to just cram everything messily in one wardrobe or whatever and pray it fits, because you really can't do it the other way around.
Wait...confused:
You see the following items of note here:
(portal) a copper-knobbed pine door
a glass-paned square window with forest-green curtains (open)
a heavy pine trunk (open) (floorspace: 100)
a long pine footlocker (open) (floorspace: 100)
a plain pine dresser (open) (floorspace: 100)
a rough-carved pine bed topped with thick green and brown quilts
a rough-carved pine chair
a rustic pine wardrobe (open) (floorspace: 100)
a small round pine table (floorspace: 50)
a wash basin
(663 of 550 floor space used, -113 space left.)
Huh? 100 + 100 + 100 + 100 + 50 = 450, not 663. Surely I still remember basic math.
I think if we were at the point that printing errors to console, logging, or string formatting were issues, the situation would feel much worse and more consistent. I do appreciate the willingness to try and help find ways to better improve the technical performance of the game. It gets me thinking once again about that future day where item count is no longer an issue, and things are running nice and smooth. Do we then go back to unlimited storage? Do we consider it reasonable that someone stores nine thousand ingots in a personal bank vault? Nine million? 500 handcarts on a farm? (Sure you couldn't farm on it, but many farms are currently used primarily for storage rather than farming). Pre-furnished "small and cozy" inn rooms outfitted with an additional 5 wardrobes, 8 crates, 4 trunks, 10 footlockers, 7 heavy backpacks on the floor ... I'm exaggerating to make a point, but in the past this has all been technically possible, and I don't think that was a good thing.
Consider the expectation of a fairly high degree of realism/believability in the RP-enforced aspect of the game, and the game's setting. I'm frequently reminding players that these towns/outposts are densely-packed into cramped geographic areas because they are defensible in the dangerous Lost Lands environment, and that's the reason they're still standing while others have fallen to the various threats out there. It seems to defy the reasonable believability of these things when we have unlimited storage available, and I think having it up to this point has set some bad expectations. Do these small town bank private storage vaults really have enough space to store a fleet of handcarts, a forest's worth of logs, and a mountain's worth of metal ingots? It seems like a stretch to even imagine these places having individual private vaults at all (save perhaps for a select few wealthy townsfolk or something), but that's an allowance made for the sake of game convenience. I do believe in a balance between realism and game/convenience/fun, but the key there is "balance."
When (and I do mean when, I'm determined!) we get to that place where item count is no longer an issue you can bet I'm going to jump on setting-appropriate player housing! I've been itching to get to that for years. I think it's been detrimental to the game that players tend to feel like their characters are perpetual itinerants and vagabonds because they're unable to set down roots any deeper than squatting in ruins or renting temporary inn rooms. I think homes will go a long way toward making people feel like they really belong in the setting/community, and in turn the game itself. And I think housing is where we allow more freedom to personalize and outfit rooms with significant amounts of furniture and such. That feels much more appropriate than people moving their own complete set of furniture into small inn rooms as if they're studio apartments. Even with homes I'd keep the floor space system though, because I feel there should always be a reasonable storage limitation in place.
Wandered a bit off-track there with dreams of player housing! But if nothing else, our current situation is getting everyone used to the idea of actually having some kind of limitation on how much they can own, and putting some thought into what should kept and what should be tossed rather than holding onto virtually everything ever found, because why not, with unlimited storage space?
Oh hey! I just realize you can still store your bag in the wardrobe when the floor is full! There's something better, though still kinda frustrating that's there's virtually no space at all on the floor, like none. It's not like you can sort containers within the other container, heh. At least putting your bag in a wardrobe doesn't make the wardrobe bigger. The feeling of being sandwiched and claustrophobically suffocated to death, however, is something else. I'm trying to free my vault space so I can get my inn stuff there, but I'm not sure how to go about organizing everything because I'm holding stuff for two players, not just myself. If it was me alone I wouldn't have much at all. I feel for those who have all of their belongings and have to sort the entirety of them. Tbh, I can't even play the game thanks to the majority of time needed to sort this, but at least my bank account jumps up, my rent is extended and my chars are richer. Uh well.
artus wrote: ↑Tue Sep 12, 2023 4:29 pmI'm not sure how to go about organizing everything because I'm holding stuff for two players, not just myself.
Part of the reason you can't give always-access to your room to other people is because you're not supposed to avoid multiple people paying rent by doubling up in one room; tell your roommate to rent their own room and offload some things there.
I can't. The player hasn't been on for ages. Ic reason is she's Arty's wife. Ooc reason is that I feel for her whenever she takes forever to log in so I took her stuff in. Now I can't do anything about it because there's no way to access her vault and she's not even on.
I'm actually really liking the changes so far. It made me feel good about the amount of items I have, at least in my inn room, because I didn't really have to do much of anything. It did kick me a bit to reorganize for the sake of it, but either way.
Would it be possible to get a floor space breakdown for farms, as well? A part of me wants it for all rooms period, OOC as it might be, but I don't think it's really needed in many other places than indoor rooms. And, of course, I think farms.
So, what about farms? Just now, I went to take a handcart back to a farm, and it said there wasn't enough space for it. However, using the "contents" command on a farm shows no floorspace numbers, so how do we know what we can have on a farm and what we can't? Is the amount of space we have based on the amount of land we have, e.g., as we expand our land with increased husbandry and farming skill, does our space also increase?
If we're going for realism here, then people would store logs, for example, on a corner of their land, outside. I doubt very highly that they would store logs in a vault, inside of a building. I would think that as an outdoor area, farms would be much bigger than a normal room, even much bigger than a vault. It would be really helpful and useful to be able to see the numbers with respect to farms as well, not just inside rooms.
