Combat: Warriors vs Non-Warriors
Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:46 am
So, I'd like to talk about the glaring difference between the enjoyment, effectiveness, and options available to the two main groups of people who engage in combat. Warriors and non-Warriors. Rias has made it clear, that out of the variety of Guilds, he wants Warriors to specifically shine there as it's their jam, and while others may pick it up they'll both never be quite as effective in comparison to a Warrior with equal skills but that their Guild won't overly support it via Abilities. It's pretty much a flip on the discussions that have been held regarding the eventual release of Artisans and how to make lesser skilled crafters both relevant, and still useful in a world with hyper-focused 700 skill Artisans.
Just as a preface, I will be discussing primarily Melee. My experience with Ranged Combat is non-existent beyond Warlock pew-pew as is my knowledge on Stealth since both have changed a lot and I don't play those characters any more. I'll mention both later, but definitely take my thoughts there with a grain of salt.
I think most people who have played a Warrior to a certain level, enough to pick up a few abilities beyond their initial Tactic, have found it enjoyable. Some don't like the whole lack of auto-attacking, and reliance on timing but as a whole once they've clicked with the systems feedback has seemed positive. It's dynamic for a MUD, it's different, and it supports a variety of styles but I've not heard a non-Warrior take much enjoyment in it. To paraphrase user Nobody (Hope he doesn't mind me putting him on the spotlight), when he finally tried a Warrior it was only then that he actually understood the hype behind Combat. It may function as it is, but due to options/abilities it's more swish than hit. It's also the complete opposite of Crafting as it currently is where if you have Skill, it's very useful and not gated behind anything else (with exception for Blades, which is a general ability).
Honestly, I think that covers the issues with it and lumps in Effectiveness/Options all in one. Melee users basically can feint until their opponent has negative rerolls. Use a circle to get enough balance to get a reroll, then truestrike. Rinse and repeat. Throw in the fact that truestrike is *awful* in comparison to any Warrior ability and it just feels very... "Meh".
So, what would I do to change that? Well. Tiered abilities have been brought up before, and we've also seen a few abilities that change depending on Guild. I kind of think that needs to be embraced. Give people options. They may never be as super effective as a Warrior of the same Guild using it, but say Mr Bard wants to go the swashbuckling route and be a bit combat orientated. Possibly, he picks up some Abilities that make him feel like a Duelist even though he'll never be as good as one at equal Skill. Warriors should definitely be the best in combat, but just as we've the Duelist Trading Consortium, I'd love to see the Painbringer Physickers.
Some examples...
Side by Side: Two options. Make it slightly weaker than it is currently, but see an increase to current rate at 450 melee, or simply have it increase if you're in the Warriors Guild.
Combat Readiness: I'd honestly just make this general. It's a *hugely* important ability in allowing some variation in combat due to the additional balance. Or, reduce it to 3 for Non-Guild. Change the wording so it isn't always regarding combat, and could make it function elsewhere. Could offer synergy bonuses to Acrobatics and Dancing.
Tackle: Increased energy cost (to 25), and less target balance loss (down to -25). Possible options could also be scaling via Melee again, with up to original results at 450, or 400 Melee skill.
Shield Charge: See above for Tackle, and a variation of.
Shield Bash: Could increase cooldown, with possible reductions for Skill/Guild.
Tumble: Increased cooldown, scaling, etc.
Graceful Dodge: Is this general? This should be general.
Honestly, I think for most abilities with some scaling in regards to cooldown, effects, minimum balance required, they could be made applicable as General abilities. There are of course, some that really shouldn't be. The signature stuff. Tactics for example. The Duelist's Cloak Parry, Combat Analysis, Dreadnought's Blade Catch, and etc.
Not everyone is going to want to do combat, and not everyone is going to want to dedicate themselves to it. But why not throw all the options at people like you do with skills so we have to suffer and agonize over options.
Also. Truestrike. Seriously. At perhaps 100+ Melee, it should spend all balance but say 3-5. That would go a long way to making it useable.
Now for the bit to take with a grain of salt. I don't think Stealth and Ranged currently suffer as much from this. I can't think of any Warrior Guilds that really offer abilities for Ranged, so what is needed to make it fun/effective are built into the Skill as a base. Stealth, I believe is the same though there are abilities which do make it more useful in terms if you're a Nightblade. I think this sort of philosophy should be kept in mind when expanding both those areas as well.
As it is, I think Riding might be the most useful combat supplement for Non-Warriors as it's currently just as effective for them as it is Warriors. They can get access to consistent rerolls, and lack the ability to utilize anything to reduce their opponents balance as well.
Edit: I also think even allowing one reroll to basic attacks for balance would go a long way in making it more effective for non-Warriors, Warriors and monsters alike.
Just as a preface, I will be discussing primarily Melee. My experience with Ranged Combat is non-existent beyond Warlock pew-pew as is my knowledge on Stealth since both have changed a lot and I don't play those characters any more. I'll mention both later, but definitely take my thoughts there with a grain of salt.
I think most people who have played a Warrior to a certain level, enough to pick up a few abilities beyond their initial Tactic, have found it enjoyable. Some don't like the whole lack of auto-attacking, and reliance on timing but as a whole once they've clicked with the systems feedback has seemed positive. It's dynamic for a MUD, it's different, and it supports a variety of styles but I've not heard a non-Warrior take much enjoyment in it. To paraphrase user Nobody (Hope he doesn't mind me putting him on the spotlight), when he finally tried a Warrior it was only then that he actually understood the hype behind Combat. It may function as it is, but due to options/abilities it's more swish than hit. It's also the complete opposite of Crafting as it currently is where if you have Skill, it's very useful and not gated behind anything else (with exception for Blades, which is a general ability).
Honestly, I think that covers the issues with it and lumps in Effectiveness/Options all in one. Melee users basically can feint until their opponent has negative rerolls. Use a circle to get enough balance to get a reroll, then truestrike. Rinse and repeat. Throw in the fact that truestrike is *awful* in comparison to any Warrior ability and it just feels very... "Meh".
So, what would I do to change that? Well. Tiered abilities have been brought up before, and we've also seen a few abilities that change depending on Guild. I kind of think that needs to be embraced. Give people options. They may never be as super effective as a Warrior of the same Guild using it, but say Mr Bard wants to go the swashbuckling route and be a bit combat orientated. Possibly, he picks up some Abilities that make him feel like a Duelist even though he'll never be as good as one at equal Skill. Warriors should definitely be the best in combat, but just as we've the Duelist Trading Consortium, I'd love to see the Painbringer Physickers.
Some examples...
Side by Side: Two options. Make it slightly weaker than it is currently, but see an increase to current rate at 450 melee, or simply have it increase if you're in the Warriors Guild.
Combat Readiness: I'd honestly just make this general. It's a *hugely* important ability in allowing some variation in combat due to the additional balance. Or, reduce it to 3 for Non-Guild. Change the wording so it isn't always regarding combat, and could make it function elsewhere. Could offer synergy bonuses to Acrobatics and Dancing.
Tackle: Increased energy cost (to 25), and less target balance loss (down to -25). Possible options could also be scaling via Melee again, with up to original results at 450, or 400 Melee skill.
Shield Charge: See above for Tackle, and a variation of.
Shield Bash: Could increase cooldown, with possible reductions for Skill/Guild.
Tumble: Increased cooldown, scaling, etc.
Graceful Dodge: Is this general? This should be general.
Honestly, I think for most abilities with some scaling in regards to cooldown, effects, minimum balance required, they could be made applicable as General abilities. There are of course, some that really shouldn't be. The signature stuff. Tactics for example. The Duelist's Cloak Parry, Combat Analysis, Dreadnought's Blade Catch, and etc.
Not everyone is going to want to do combat, and not everyone is going to want to dedicate themselves to it. But why not throw all the options at people like you do with skills so we have to suffer and agonize over options.
Also. Truestrike. Seriously. At perhaps 100+ Melee, it should spend all balance but say 3-5. That would go a long way to making it useable.
Now for the bit to take with a grain of salt. I don't think Stealth and Ranged currently suffer as much from this. I can't think of any Warrior Guilds that really offer abilities for Ranged, so what is needed to make it fun/effective are built into the Skill as a base. Stealth, I believe is the same though there are abilities which do make it more useful in terms if you're a Nightblade. I think this sort of philosophy should be kept in mind when expanding both those areas as well.
As it is, I think Riding might be the most useful combat supplement for Non-Warriors as it's currently just as effective for them as it is Warriors. They can get access to consistent rerolls, and lack the ability to utilize anything to reduce their opponents balance as well.
Edit: I also think even allowing one reroll to basic attacks for balance would go a long way in making it more effective for non-Warriors, Warriors and monsters alike.