Additional No-Hide Locations

[Serity]

Shadgard's bank, town hall entry (task taking) and post office are all flagged no-hide.

In the same vein, I'd like to recommend the following other places be flagged no-hide:

• Mistral Lake's Town Hall
• Mistral Lake's General Store/Post Office
• Mistral Lake's Bank
• Mistral Lake's Vault Entry
• New Emberlight's Delivery Turn-in [Emberlight Keep]
• Stormholdt Castle's Delivery Turn-in [Storehouse]
• Library of Qamar's Delivery Turn-in [Annex Building]

It's quite simple for someone to lurk at these places invisible and swipe riln from people who are turning in tasks or depositing money, especially given that task rewards pay in coins instead of notes (which is good, since the Hanged Man doesn't accept notes anywhere on its premises...), so they're not immune to thievery.

[Jaster]

I'm not going to say I'm a subject matter expert, but I will say that I've never stolen from anyone in any of these locations.

[Bork]

Just curious, but the intent of nohide locations is more to do with the reality that there is no where to hide in those places. As in, its an IC measure for the sake of immersion more than it is an OOC measure to prevent thief camping?

[deborah]

Yes, I completely agree. I would also add
1. Shadgard infirmary;
2. Mistral lake infirmary;
3. Mistral Lake Infirmary;
4. Emberlight, the tent;
5. Stormholdt Infirmary.
people go there to get treated and there shouldn't be any act of thievery

[Serity]

I'm not going to say I'm a subject matter expert, but I will say that I've never stolen from anyone in any of these locations.

Neither have I, but I could very easily start doing so, as they'd be very lucrative locations to sit for reasons already explained (well, maybe less the Mistral locations due to lack of consistent players, but I'd like to hope that it won't always be that way). The annex doesn't even have security if I got banned from the library, since the barrier's beyond the building. I'd rather not start doing that just to prove a point, though.

Just curious, but the intent of nohide locations is more to do with the reality that there is no where to hide in those places. As in, its an IC measure for the sake of immersion more than it is an OOC measure to prevent thief camping?

Some places could very easily have hiding locations, such as the Shadgard bank, they just don't. It makes sense on an IC level to make it no-hide, but also on the OOC level of thief-camping. In the bank there's even a special custom message if you try to hide, talking about the guards' locations and all that, not just the usual nowhere to hide. The gatehouses around Mistral Lake/Shadgard, for example, I believe are no-hide for the purpose of preventing banned people from making their way into the city and sneaking past the guards - I'm not quite sure what the situation would be for Stormholdt and Emberlight, but you can sneak into those towns, so I assume you could get past the guards that way.

A location's design is dictated by a conscious choice by its designer and no-hide flags are generally intentional for one reason or another, whether IC or OOC, but often both, I imagine. Valeria's prison being no-hide makes it not a good place for Nightblades to hunt, but also prisons would want to minimize obstacles and obstructions. The layout of Redrock Canyon makes it impossible to uyto/eavesdrop on someone just outside the Shadgard gate without being spotted, but there's a hideable room just around the corner in between two no-hide rooms, where there's trees growing, so you can still swipe from people on the way out if you're quick. Valeria's northern exit can be a chokepoint for the Liberi to stop people sneaking in/out past potential ambushes or, in the past, guards, but it also matches the no-hidiness of other gatehouses in the main cities.

The banks are a chokepoint for every single person who has money - every fighter who goes out hunting or anyone who does a task must visit the bank to turn their money into unthievable notes, so they all must go to the bank. The room outside the bank, Bankers Square, is also a chokepoint, but people rarely stop there for very long - 'enter bank' is very fast to type and muscle memory, as opposed to spending more time with multiple commands checking their money, depositing the right amount, withdrawing notes, etc. Mistral Lake's bank could easily have the same guards as Shadgard does in their bank to discourage camping.

Yes, I completely agree. I would also add
1. Shadgard infirmary;
2. Mistral lake infirmary;
3. Mistral Lake Infirmary;
4. Emberlight, the tent;
5. Stormholdt Infirmary.
people go there to get treated and there shouldn't be any act of thievery

These are also good ideas, though I'll admit that I do like to do stealth shenanigans in infirmaries for fun - listening and eavesdropping, at least.

[Ephemeralis]

Keeping the north and south equal in regards to this stuff with the no-hide thing is fair, but extending it to infirmaries is not - there's plenty of legitimate reasons to be hiding in those areas.

Cordial reminder: theft is already nearly trivial to defend against from both a skill and mechanical perspective. Close your containers. That's literally it.

[Gorth]

Keeping the north and south equal in regards to this stuff with the no-hide thing is fair, but extending it to infirmaries is not - there's plenty of legitimate reasons to be hiding in those areas.

Cordial reminder: theft is already nearly trivial to defend against from both a skill and mechanical perspective. Close your containers. That's literally it.

But that isn't fun. No seriously.

[Tessa]

As a stealth person on both characters, I take no hide to mean there's either no legitimately good places to hide, hallways or heavily guarded areas, etc. Banks are kinda... if you're really trying to be *that* person. Infirmaries, I feel need a good reason not to be. If you're worried, close your containers. The good thief will be creative.

[Rias]

Just curious, but the intent of nohide locations is more to do with the reality that there is no where to hide in those places. As in, its an IC measure for the sake of immersion more than it is an OOC measure to prevent thief camping?

It can be a little of both, depending on the situation. Most of them are simple logic situations: There's nowhere to hide inside a small tent or hovel. There are a lot of spots in the Shadgard canyon that can't be hidden in, because there's literally nothing to hide behind out there. It's a useful part of Shadgard's geography that prevents invaders from sneaking up to the gate unnoticed. Then there are rooms like banks where there may be potential physical hiding spots, but we assume there are enough staff/guards/whatever around preventing people from skulking around.

There could be situations where we make an area no-hide for Game Reasons because we just don't want people to be able to hide in that situation for whatever reason, though I'm having trouble thinking of any permanent ones off the top of my head. We sometimes temporarily add the tag to rooms during special merchant events when a GM is animating an NPC and providing special services. We don't want a player's day to be ruined by sneaky hijinx when they were just excited to attend a special event and brought some money to pay for the service. This isn't to say every such event is guaranteed to be hide-proof.

Also, an important note: You don't have to be hidden to steal things. A room being tagged as no-hide doesn't mean it's theft-proof. Thieves do seem to generally prefer being hidden while stealing though, for obvious reasons, so it can at least be considered a partial deterrent.

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll discuss with the team and announce (here in this thread) which rooms we add the no-hide tag to.