Acknowledging the history of CLOK

[Rias]

When COGG started, CLOK was still running. Admittedly, it was exciting to have some fresh start opportunities for a few things that I didn't love as much from CLOK. But also, because CLOK was running and I didn't want COGG to feel *too* close to it, many things that came from CLOK were deliberately changed, retconned, or considered non-canon in COGG, making COGG a sort of reboot rather than a continuation of CLOK's history and story. A lot of those decisions have been reversed after CLOK shut down in order to preserve things that would otherwise have been lost with the closing of that game. I've recently gotten to the point of considering the CLOK-specific history of events and its player characters and the effects they had on the history and world.

It's something I've thought about frequently while working on COGG from the beginning, and I think is a big contributor to how hollow it feels to me - because it literally had years of history and experiences removed from it, or at best shoved into a broom closet. I think this is also why a number of CLOK veterans struggle with COGG: it's hard to come here and think of so many years of experiences and history and in many cases personal investment that were essentially wiped away, or at least swept under the rug and put into a sort of "let's not talk about that" status.

I see the loss of all that history, of all those examples of the influence players had on the world, as a tragedy for players, myself, and the game world in general. CLOK started out as an experiment, and my love and investment for it grew over time as experiences and history were made with it and its players. Even the stuff I didn't love as much, I find myself missing now that it's not around, because for better or worse it had become a part of the world and its history.

I've been thinking about any particular issues that would need to be reconciled if I just completely acknowledge CLOK's history of characters and events (at least up to the point before COGG was started) here in COGG. Quite little has actually happened in COGG as far as significant events go (my fault), so not too many conflicts or snags come to mind, but here are some of them and how I plan to address them:

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- Haiban: Retconned away. This is probably the biggest thing that would change. It would remain the Coalition Headquarters area instead, rebuilt after being burned down. I know some people loved Haiban in CLOK, but having a big fancy city with things like luxury high-rise apartments just does not fit well into the post-apocalyptic dangerous frontier survival setting that is the Lost Lands.

- Gunther: In early CLOK, there was the NPC "Acting Mayor Gunther" as part of an event while Mayor Dannal of Shadgard was sick. This CLOK Gunther NPC was eventually killed. In COGG, Shadgard currently has a Councilman by the name of Gunther Mathau who is based on that Gunther because I really liked that character. So, we'll say the Acting Mayor incident from CLOK was a different person, Walter Gunther. Easy enough.

- University of Elemancy: Anyone familiar with CLOK's University of Elemancy is likely aware that the Library of Qamar is the COGG version of it. Elemental channel glyphs can be worked into the Arcanist specialization, just like fortourgy channeling is now. I don't think there's anything else major to be addressed there.

- Monks/Templar: It's still canon that the Templar were disbanded in Ivial for treason, and that the King of Ivial sought their capture and eventually the capture of all thaumaturges. Those rumors of some of them fleeing to the Lost Lands were true (did anyone really doubt?). The Monks and the Templar in the Lost Lands (including the PCs who played as some of them) operated there for a time doing what good they could, but it's also still canon that they officially disbanded in the Lost Lands as well after many of their members began "disappearing" (man they've had it rough lately). Pretty much everyone assumes these thaumaturge-disappearances are the work of the Dominion after so many monks/templar were found to be helping the Resistance, and of course there are rumors of the Dominion wanting to capture thaumaturges in general as well for who knows what other purposes. Any thaumaturges that currently remain in the Lost Lands have either been "disappeared" or have been keeping a low profile/in hiding. (We can assume they've still been doing their best to be quietly doing good works as much as they can even if trying to stay out of the public's eye.) Note: The stuff that happened in late CLOK where Shadgard was attacked and the Church facilities destroyed and its NPCs killed will be retconned - that was long after my time and doesn't reconcile with the current state of the church in Shadgard.

- Corvus Outpost: Previous leader Lord Winston has left the Outpost, rumors saying he has done so to investigate some sorcerous discoveries and opportunities far away elsewhere in the Lost Lands. Another has been appointed to lead in his stead. One effect of this change in leadership is that many of the residents of the outpost have opted to start calling the place by its original historic name: Caer Ioan. (Sceptus Corvus, who was classy enough to name the place after himself when he occupied the ruin, has been gone for a very long time now. But some still call it Corvus Outpost and that's fine too.) Caer Ioan, as has been stated previous to this post, will be a minor faction and not a full-fledged town comparable to Shadgard or Mistral Lake, and its people are very selective about who they are willing to trust.

- Tse Gaiyan: The Tse Gaiyan Chapterhouse was at one point overwhelmed in a massive infested attack (looks like that defensive emberberry hedge just didn't cut it!) and many of its members and leaders perished. The location was eventually retaken with assistance from others, but the damage to both the structure and the organization itself were severe. At this point, those who survived have nearly finished their restoration efforts and are eager to recruit to their cause and build up their ranks once again.

- New Emberlight, Porto D'esilio, and the Republic of Exiles: Were always there in CLOK lore-wise, just "off the edge of the map" game-wise.

- Brotherhood of the Fist: It'll exist as a niche group of brawling enthusiasts, but not an official guild or giver of skills/abilities. It can be a faction PCs can get in with if they want to for RP purposes. (I might retcon the name, because I don't love meme-punny IC names.)

- Wardens of the Grove: This guild came about long after I had left the project and I sadly don't know anything about it beyond the name and a very vague concept. Retconned away as a guild. Could be a neat player-run Company though, if one of its members plays COGG and wants to take that up to keep it alive.

- Hamlets: Keth and Emleth will be added at some point as ruins (this was always the plan for COGG anyway). Nelra can probably exist as a tiny moving camp at some point, similar to how I want the Mummers' Camp to work. Ashdell is an off-the-playable-map Dominion territory and is unlikely to appear in-game, except perhaps if we ever want to use it as a temporary event location. Westbrook: Will appear in its Spinner's Creek form (so what happened to it in CLOK is still canon). Morhollow is already in COGG as the Wyrvardn headquarters as before.

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I think most of the oddity of merging CLOK history into COGG will be "why haven't any of the major CLOK events from the recent past been talked about or acknowledged in COGG then" but honestly, that doesn't seem like a particularly difficult hurdle to get over. Events not being talked about recently doesn't mean it's unbelievable that they ever happened. Really, there's a lot of various lore that should technically be known by PCs/residents of the Lost Lands that isn't until an official document or such is dropped somewhere by staff, and that's never been a problem. And of course, CLOK veterans who like to speak with NPCs probably picked up on several vague-but-still-present references to past CLOK events that were kept vague because ... see the first paragraph of this post.

What about that handful of PCs who are currently playing a rebooted version of their CLOK characters? They will be given the choice to:
A) Keep their rebooted version and say the previous CLOK version was an unrelated historical figure
B) Merge their CLOK version's history into their COGG version

There aren't many of these rebooted-from-CLOK PCs so it shouldn't be too big of a problem. After an initial period of their players sending tells to others who knew them in order to clarify, things should be fine. In either case however, the players of these characters should get in contact with me (email rias (at) contrarium.net) with their decision, and we can smooth out any oddities that there might be with the situation. I will be flagging such characters so I can keep an eye on the situation. To address an obvious point however: why are their capabilities lesser or different than they were in CLOK? Feel free to come up with excuses. Here are a few easy ones: They got lazy or injured or became interested in other things and so their previous skills got rusty. They had a life-changing event that caused them to pursue a different path. A series of rapid or traumatic deaths scrambled their soul and caused them to regress in skill and capability as a result.

Opting to stick with a character's previous CLOK history is not necessarily an easy in to exclusive factions or reputations and such however, nor does it mean we'll be giving them all their items from The Other Game. On the flip side, any/all negative aspects of their previous reputation or experiences will also carry over, so keep that in mind! You can't only pick the good aspects of the history and conveniently leave out the bad. It's strictly an all-or-nothing deal, no cherry-picking.

Players with experience in CLOK should please refrain from immediately creating new COGG characters based on their old CLOK characters following this announcement. Please reach out to me if you have an interest in bringing back one of your CLOK characters before doing so, but also remember that you already have characters here in COGG that you have invested in - don't abandon them to grasp at the past! If you're already having fun, stick with what you've got. If I see CLOK characters being created without getting ahold of me first (please don't do this), I will be suspending those characters until the player and I are able to talk about it and get any details worked out that may need working out first.

(EDIT: The option to acknowledge an old CLOK character's history on a current active COGG character is currently limited to those who already recreated their CLOK characters in COGG prior to this announcement. Please refrain from creating any new COGG characters that are meant to be reincarnations of CLOK characters in response to this announcement. There will be a following announcement if/when we decide to extend this opportunity to additional characters. This does not mean those CLOK characters' histories are not canon, only that they are not available as COGG playable characters.)

It should go without saying, but it is under no circumstances acceptable to assume the character/history of another player's character (not even if the other player says they're okay with it). Doing so will be grounds for a ban.

Again, I want to restrict any history-acknowledgement/merge to the time before COGG was started: essentially, the period during which I was paying attention to CLOK and what was going on in it, or was at the very least acting as an advisor behind the scenes even after I had retired from the project. This means we'll still be shaving off some of the late CLOK history, but I have virtually no knowledge of any of that history and wouldn't be able to verify or approve or reconcile any of it. I apologize to people who had late-era CLOK characters or experiences that won't be able to keep them.

If anyone can think of any other CLOK history that might be difficult to reconcile with COGG or just seems somehow "iffy" in COGG for some reason, please let me know so I can think such cases over.

[Navi]

What about the scarecrows? I haven't logged in recently to check, but that whole underground area should be sealed off from players if memory serves. I can't remember if that was before or after you stepped away from CLOK though.

[Verel]

That's great that you've come to that realization.

I always felt that CLOK wasn't something to be hidden away like it never happened. Even the social aspect of not even mentioning the name CLOK in conversation was always a little too strange for me because I very much loved CLOk as a game I played for 6 years.

I'm glad that COGG is a game I can play and maintain some familiarity with it as well as be introduced to new concepts and ideas that you have in your head. Now, would I love to be able to throw fire out my hands and stuff like in CLOK? Yes. But I recognize the differences that systems like the glyphs bring and I like that there are creative ideas that make this game similar but different.

I always thought CLOK was not something to be ashamed of in any way because I personally loved the community, the mechanics, and the roleplay I had. Some of these times playing CLOK were my best memories for which I still very much look fondly on at times. It's great to be able to have an opportunity with COGG to build new memories in a game that is starting to feel just like CLOK did when I played it so long ago.

Thank you very much for acknowledging the history of CLOK. I was hoping you would do this as it needed some doing and it brings me the closure I definitely was seeking.

[Navi]

Completely agree Verel. Great post.

[Vaelin]

I'm glad to hear that veteran pc impact will be here. I was wondering about that when I saw the oaty biscuit back in dwaedn vill. Anyway, I'm just happy that someway, somehow, my characters back in clok are cannonically still around in game off screen doing their own thing. That is closure for me.

[Squeak]

I never played Clok, but in playing COGG and listening (reading) Discord and BBS posts about the "other game" seemed off to me. Frankly, it bugged the ever-living hell out of me when I started.

After playing for awhile, I began to realize that it was like a huge portion of the history section in a Library just upped and vanished, leaving Veteran players to somehow consolidate old world news in a "new" setting - in roughly the same world as the old, but without being able to say where they got the information in an IC setting.

I finally came to the conclusion that the game seemed "hollow" - no real foundation for it to build off of. Importing the old Lore (modified to fit your current creative vision) is a great stepping stone to rectify that, and as a new player, I can't wait to experience it all first hand.

Keep it on up, Rias (and Gang)!!

P.s. - I read something about revolvers and oh, lordy, I damn near cried.

[Volinn]

P.s. - I read something about revolvers and oh, lordy, I damn near cried.

It's been mentioned in multiple places that firearm technology isn't intended to traverse past flintlock-ish era which I've no issue with, but because I've heard them mentioned before in relation to CLOK (having also never played) I was wondering how that might be handled. Unless they were a late era addition and the curiosity is moot?

[Rias]

Whew! Thank you to everyone who has shared their thoughts. I had started to wonder if I had accidentally posted this with permissions that kept the post hidden from players, or something to that effect. The complete lack of response for a while there was a bit anxiety-inducing, so it's good to finally confirm that it has been seen and to know some players' thoughts on it.

It feels so freeing to finally officially do this, and to have the fullness of the world and its history available again, and no longer have to walk on eggshells and tiptoe around certain things and live in a sort of half-real half-indeterminate/revisionist world setting. I've also been pleasantly surprised to see that we aren't having a bunch of CLOK veterans abandoning their COGG characters for their CLOK ones - this was one of my bigger worries, and it's been great to see people standing by their current characters that they already enjoy instead of COGG seeing a sudden loss of great current PCs. (Not that there's anything wrong with some people wanting to bring some of theirs back at some point still (remember to get in touch with me first before doing so so we can iron things out). I know I'm excited to bring back a PC or two of my own, not to mention a whole horde of NPCs that were stuck in that sort of uncertain limbo state before).

Regarding the scarecrows: Their farm literally disappeared from the map at one point for a year or so. How and why did this happen? Did they do it on their own or did they have help? Was it even deliberate? Good questions, but the scarecrows have never been big talkers. The farm was recently revealed again (by PC actions!) and the scarecrows seem to have settled down a bit, being less immediately aggressive to those who wander into their land than they were before, but they are certainly still not particularly friendly or talkative as they tend to not react at all to visitors so long as those visitors are peaceful and not being disruptive. What's the deal there? Maybe it'll be discovered at some point, but at the moment they remain a very mysterious curiosity.

Another thing that I thought of that should be addressed: Itotia, one of the Wyrvardn leaders, was apparently killed in CLOK. Her NPC didn't have any weapons or skills or a particularly effective AI assigned, and the PC that killed her says they thought they were just doing sparring practice with an NPC because the area was described as a sparring ring of sorts. It was made effectively canon in CLOK that she was murdered, as far as I'm aware, but we're going to say that isn't the case here. Itotia lives, she had a spar with a new recruit and went easy on them and maybe took a lucky hit and went to go get healed up, and that's the extent of it.

Regarding revolvers: May show up, may not, so hold there. If they do, I'd want them to be balanced and not just be an objectively superior weapon.

[Squeak]

Regarding revolvers: May show up, may not, so hold there. If they do, I'd want them to be balanced and not just be an objectively superior weapon.

Just so we're clear, I'm not saying I actually WANT one. I'm happy with the level of technology and ease of use currently present.

[Maina]

I suppose I will address this directly to Rias, though that feels weird on a public forum. It's just a cleaner way to write.

I admit to mixed feelings.

I bounced off CLOK a few times. By the time I started sticking around, it was after you had left (though you did respond to a few of my lore questions on the forum iirc!). So this means I have little knowledge of the setting of CLOK during your time there and a little bit from after that I cannot use. It will make things a little complicated for me, not knowing what to reference and what not, and also feel a little left out that I played but apparently missed the good parts. My main, at the end, was a Warden of the Grove, for example. Something that doesn't exist now.

I am also a little concerned that you may feel the need to include everything from before when this is an opportunity to make adjustments. A prime example would be Elemancy. It was my understanding (I am quite possibly wrong!) from past comments that you did not like Elemancy or had regretted some aspects of its implimentation and only kept it because he did not want to boot people out of the guild by deleting it. You also made some comments about struggling with Arcanists when I first joined COGG, if I recall, though we have since had Arcanist Christmas. Will merging the two (elemental channel glyphs, as were mentioned) be fun for you? Will it help by broadening Arcanists or be frustrating?

THe first point, regarding making things complicated for me, will pass. It'll become the new normal.

The second point is what interests me more! I am always excited to see you excited to work on the game, and the past few major changes that have been announced definitely sound like they've made you more excited. I just hope that the things that make you excited from CLOK make their way here while the things that frustrated you or made things a chore and eventually led to you leaving get left behind where they belong, rather than brought forward because of a feeling that it has to be all or nothing.