Skill rolls now based on practice level

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Rias
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Skill rolls now based on practice level

Post by Rias »

Per the changelog: A character's skill rolls are now based on their current practice level for that skill rather than their trained cap.

This means characters will now see their rolls going up more gradually as they practice their skill after training it, rather than seeing a sudden jump upon training a skill higher.

For example: A character has just trained their Melee skill from 75 to 100. Their Melee rolls will still be 175, based on their practice still being at 75. As they practice up to, say, 82 practice, their rolls will then be 182. Only when they have practiced all the way up to 100 will they see rolls of 200.

This should make skill training feel a bit less jarring without the sudden jumps in skill, and also make it feel a bit more satisfying to practice a skill up and see one's skill rolls going up accordingly.

There may be some situations I overlooked with this update, so if anyone sees any skill rolls that are clearly rolling their trained skill number rather than their practiced skill number, please report it by using the BUG command in-game.
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Lexx416
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Re: Skill rolls now based on practice level

Post by Lexx416 »

I've been sitting on this for a while, but I actually really don't care for this change. It was never jarring to me to be able to jump up my effective combat skill (or any other score really) by a set amount, but it did make the game feel less grindy, and less of a chore. I've struggled to get interested in combat since this change rolled around because I don't tend to play characters that are terribly optimized in terms of mechanics (especially combat prowess), but that's mostly been because I've been able to "skip" over harder-to-train skill ranges by focusing on enemies that I can kill reasonably without always making the optimal combat choices with regards to skill selections, weapon choices, and tactics (especially as a non warrior). But I suspect even if I rolled up a straight warrior, I'd still run into the same issues I'm currently running into.
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Gorth
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Re: Skill rolls now based on practice level

Post by Gorth »

I have had similar thoughts lately, Lexx, but did not voice them for a lack of belief that the act would change anything. nor, truly, was I sure if I wanted it to change. Having played multiple characters since this change starting from Character Generation, I can confirm that watching the practice rise makes me feel as if I am swimming upriver, rather than upstream. This destinction is not bad, depending on the type of game being made, but I feel confident in saying that this game is not one such.

As I said, I am unsure if I wish this to change, because conceptually it makes sense, but the act of spending skill points now feels like paying rent, rather than buying a house; or more specifically, paying my skill up tax, rather than paying for higher skill. A long, long time ago an idea was floating and explored of skills being more nebulous, where practice affects your skill rolls, but you needn't spend skill points and be gated in this regard by level. This is, of course, a rather large difference in system, and certainly not a change which should distract from the current projects. It is, however, something worth considering. I am interested in if other people feel these ways.
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Candelori
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Re: Skill rolls now based on practice level

Post by Candelori »

I am more fond of seeing my skill grow through use. I do feel the combat situation would be improved if killing a foe was not a requirement for practicing the skill.
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Re: Skill rolls now based on practice level

Post by Squeak »

I'm with Candelori on this - I like seeing the practice go up as it gives me a more immediate pride of accomplishment as it does so.

However, I do think it's more tedious than it needs to be, especially for melee/ranged combat. It also seems to inversely reward some classes over others (I.e. who can kill things the fastest (assassin's mark?) will gain the fastest rewards). I would personally like to see a smaller per attempt skill gain over a set gain upon demise. Perhaps a little "bonus" gain upon landing the killing blow. Dodge, stealth, and, I think, armor use all function this way as is - that is to say, per attempt rather than a singular set amount at the death of a mob.

Would this cause players to just target arms, hands, ears, feet, legs (if possible) to gain the maximum amount of skill points per mob? Sure. Given the unforgiving nature of combat in COGG, I think it's an even trade off. If a player WANTS to run the risk of getting injured by trading blows back and forth, let them - there's still only so many things you can chop off before something dies anyways.
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Re: Skill rolls now based on practice level

Post by Navi »

Personally, I can appreciate the new system. Sure, combat rolls are challenging, but early levels this is more of a boon anyway, since you're also being granted more skill rewards for your trouble, and for a longer period of time through the zone. At higher levels, 25 skill points to your roll isn't felt much unless you're right at a threshold of skill ranges. Additionally, most players who are combat focused, this is actually a gap of only 10 points, not 25. If I recall, the original intent of the combat level restriction was to make the player take their time through the zone. This change definitely does that. On my most recent characters I have felt this working as intended. Remember, enlisting help from others is reasonable if you need a bit more help.
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Being someone who has done both systems where you gained skill from attacking or having to defeat an enemy, I much prefer the system where I have to defeat the enemy. Mainly because I strongly disliked being discouraged from using my abilities in practice. All those fancy abilities, and they only ever served to make your skill gains suffer.
However, I do like the idea. Just if it were one or the other, this is the system I'd go with. That being said, I think applying some skill gains when successfully using a combat ability would be a good compromise here.
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Karjus
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Re: Skill rolls now based on practice level

Post by Karjus »

A hard topic for me to weigh in on, and likely something that I really should experience with a new character. The main thing I will say however is, in concept I like the idea. One issue early on without combat 10 point skill caps were the fact people were just jumping zones in regards to combat. You'd skip so much and ruined a certain sense of progression, and a lot of the game was underutilized and there was very little point in adding much variety/content in terms of skill brackets. It is one reason why I think most mobs tend to follow certain intervals in the breaks in skill though it gets sparse/different at certain points because there was simply no reason to fill in those blanks.

Rias has always said more options for mobs were intended, to help give people more choices on what they can hunt. Commenting without having experienced the effect of it firsthand with combat, but reading the issues, my first thought is perhaps it simply as always means we need more variety, yes, but now there might be a reason to have those mobs that aren't a nice round skill number of say, 70 skill but have 65, and so forth. For non-combatants, this also might be quite a helpful thing.
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