Loot Luck based on combat challenge

[Rias]

We've re-enabled the general Loot Luck Based On Challenge system, which means looting mobs that are not as challenging to a character will produce less loot both riln- and lockbox-wise. It was briefly enabled with the recent lockbox updates, but then turned back off when we realized we had no cap-skill challenge combat zone and it would have thus penalized combat-capped characters. With the addition of Tanglewood and some of its critters that should present a close enough challenge even for capped characters to get the full loot, we've turned it back on again.

To get an idea of whether a mob will produce less Loot Luck, use the CONSIDER command on it. If it says it'd be a pretty even fight (or anything harder than that) you'll get the full Loot Luck. If it's less than an even fight, the amount of riln and lockbox chances will diminish, and quite steeply. We've got some systems in place to prevent silliness like designated low-skill looters, and I'm sure we'll end up patching holes in that as people find new loopholes in some way or other.

This is one of those meta "it's a a game" balancing factors, so please don't try to discuss, explain, or justify it ICly. It's one of those things that's best not really commented on IC, along with things like how someone made the multiple-day trip from Mistral Lake to Shadgard in a few moments, or why a gaping life-threatening wound in one's chest has vanished to leave a character good as new in a few minutes thanks to a needle, some thread, and a dollop of unguent.

OOCly, however, we're happy to get feedback and tweak as needed. I imagine this will be one of our less-popular updates, but we felt it was best to discourage high-skill characters farming lower-skill areas for a few reasons, including:
A) Characters getting too much riln too easily and flooding an already ever-increasing player riln pool that much more quickly
B) Upsetting with the flow of those combat zones for people who are there trying to use them as like-skill combatants for practice purposes. It could potentially end up getting those poor characters swarmed, or leave them watching all their targets get claimed by high-skill loot farmers.

To be clear, we are not saying anyone did anything bad by farming lower-skill areas for more convenient loot farming. The game mechanics supported it, and people will always gravitate toward efficiency. There's nothing wrong with that. We just saw something that seemed like it could use some balancing for the betterment of the game and playerbase as a whole.

[Ephemeralis]

Does this also apply for things like static lockbox spawns and scavenged lockboxes?

[Squeak]

Good update - though ALL MY LOOTZ GONE!

Does this only apply with critter-dropped lockboxes, or does this also effect scavenged boxes in areas? Do scavenged boxes have a loot check as well with diminishing the returns if the character looting them is high-skill compared to the area they're found in?

[Navi]

I wouldn't do this, but would full loot be generated if a lower skilled group member looted from a kill of a higher skilled individual? If so, this would still facilitate lower skill farming by higher players so long as you had a willing group member. Seems like a loophole that might've not been addressed or considered. I don't generally combat these days, otherwise I'd test.

[Ezrynon]

I have a lot of concerns about this.

1. I went to play a strictly combat character with no crafting skills because I wanted to be specific in my character role, I wanted to play a character true to his class, and things that we have been trying to avoid. Not having crafters everywhere or people who can do everything. But, that being said, I have found that trying to get the things necessary to be effective, better weapons, better armor, have a variety of things for situations that are needed has proven difficult. Do I want to get something awesome? at a festival? I have to work incredibly hard. Box drops don't happen so often that I get enough reward to pay off other people who make me things; buy a warhorse that's 500k. So, I finally broke down, and took up a craft, and yet it's still hard to make riln. Now, by doing this? it's going to make me have to constantly risk dying to make a lot of money, until the very end game when I can get bunches of riln because I'm maxed out on skills.

2. There's no tasks that combat characters have that keep them in combat. It's either focus your attention on just grinding and grinding up skills to make it worth it, or again take up a craft. This loot system while awesome in some areas/? is just going to make it frustrating in others. I'm not really excited about this because of trying to be limited in what I do, and because we don't have dedicated artisans who can just whip up some steel, or sunsteel or celestium, it makes playing a combat class character just boring and frustrating at the end as well as just difficult to do unless I find a group to team up with. I can't even do that right now with my play times, and the fact that most others are having a time of it. I'll of course play the game as it's set out to do, but If this is the case I should've at least taken up an adventurer and increased my riln making out put. find a steel ingot? I guess sell it, riln. Combat characters need something else. Highwaymen tasks, combat tasks, something, in my opinion.

[Rias]

Does this also apply for things like static lockbox spawns and scavenged lockboxes?

No, just looting of mobs at the moment. Static and scavenged boxes have more of a limitation of how many can be acquired in a given time, so we haven't felt as compelled to try and control that further as of this moment. We're keeping them in mind, but nothing beyond that thus far. Mob farming was the priority for this update, as that was a far less controlled rate of loot acquisition.

Does this only apply with critter-dropped lockboxes, or does this also effect scavenged boxes in areas? Do scavenged boxes have a loot check as well with diminishing the returns if the character looting them is high-skill compared to the area they're found in?

Just the critter-dropped boxes.

would full loot be generated if a lower skilled group member looted from a kill of a higher skilled individual?

It shouldn't. This is what I meant when I said "We've got some systems in place to prevent silliness like designated low-skill looters." That said, if it seems like it's not working, please do BUG it.

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Also, as a general note: Loot Luck also increases on its own with the combat challenge of a mob. So a character with 600 combat skill in a like-challenge 600-skill combat zone is going to be getting better Loot Luck than a 100 combat skill character in a 100-skill combat zone. Higher combat skill used against like-skill higher mobs equals better Loot Luck. The Loot Luck of static/scavenged boxes in areas with more dangerous mobs is also increased this way.

[Gorth]

I have a lot of concerns about this.

...

Just going to quickly say that I agree with everything said in this post. I also made a Warrior who was just going to be a Warrior. And then that wasn't making that much money on it's own, so I fit skinning into it. Problem with that? People like to get there own pelts. sure, sometimes I get some people who want the convenience, and i'm happy to bleed them for it, but there's no reason for people to ask me for any pelts but super hard to get ones that they can't just go kill themselves with one hundred melee.

It'd probably feel better to me if I wasn't at a point where I'm way outskilling the second hardest area for me, and also way underskilling the hardest area, that would give good loot. Not to mention the character has reasons to not fight there. But hey, these are personal problems. I think tasks would help a lot with that feeling, but as far as I know, societies are being worked on now, so hopefully we'll get something soon on that regard.

[Rias]

I went to play a strictly combat character with no crafting skills because I wanted to be specific in my character role [ ... ] I have found that trying to get the things necessary to be effective, better weapons, better armor, have a variety of things for situations that are needed has proven difficult.

I think this is more about warriors having a bit of a higher hurdle to get on their feet from the start. Non-copper weapons and a full set of armor can be an expensive initial investment. Farmers with their farm rent, and particularly animal husbandry characters who need fencing and animal shelters built before they can really get into what they want to do, are in similar situations. I'd love to hear more feedback on this aspect in particular in relation to this update.

As for my own experience, the various warriors I've played have certainly felt tough at the start while I saved up for their gear, each new armor piece purchase sending my bank account down to near zero, but after I get that milestone behind me I've always felt like I'm generally getting plenty of riln saved up for some potential future purchase by fighting the mobs I'm using to get experience and practice from (thus a challenge, and won't suffer reduced Loot Luck introduced with this update). I tend to be extremely reclusive with my PCs since I don't want to get attached to them as I generally play them as more of a test and to keep a perspective on the player experience than to play a social/significant-RP character, so I usually just vault any lockboxes I get and so am typically having a tougher financial time than those who are getting their boxes opened. Getting a horse (not just a mule) was definitely a long journey, but it's supposed to be, as horses are some of the most expensive items in the game.

I'm also literally the single most biased person regarding this issue who also has intricate GM knowledge though, so I'm not exactly the best person to objectively judge the situation. Feedback from others would be great!

2. There's no tasks that combat characters have that keep them in combat. It's either focus your attention on just grinding and grinding up skills to make it worth it, or again take up a craft.

Rather than taking up a craft, I tend to do the Town Hall tasks for supplemental income between combat practice stints. It can feel humiliating and frustrating to do so as someone who's aspiring to be a mighty warrior of renown, but everyone has to work their way up from their humble beginnings somehow. Tasks will for sure be an improvement to the combat experience in general.

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Ultimately, if combat-specific income is deemed so lacking as to require tweaking, we'll find a way to get some more income generating for it. I'm pretty firm on the stance that encouraging the potentially disruptive farming of significantly lower-skilled mobs is not the answer, though. Consider that from a game design and content creation standpoint, it can be discouraging to see significantly-progressed players continuing to focus on the early content for the bulk of their activity rather than move on to content made for the later game, whether that's combat, crafting, or otherwise.

[Rias]

It'd probably feel better to me if I wasn't at a point where I'm way outskilling the second hardest area for me, and also way underskilling the hardest area

We're aware of the skill range and are working on filling those now! The biggest offender is the 500-600 skill gap, so expect some new areas with stuff to fight in those ranges not just soon(tm) but soon(actually)!

[Verel]

I don't mind the change much. It'll encourage me personally to get better at fighting if I wanna really potentially get the really good stuff out of the lockboxes and what not.

And yes, I do very much want tasks for warriors because who doesn't want to go kill some number of individuals or a particularly mighty infested for a good amount of riln. I don't know. I love the idea of asking and receiving a challenge and getting rewarded in some way for accomplishing it and getting better at skills while also getting payed for my work.