Movement confirm into crowds (attempt to prevent blundering into "death stacks")

[Rias]

After a bit of discussion, we're trying out a feature that is meant to prevent accidentally wandering blind into "death stacks" from events and such and getting a person insta-killed out of the blue.

Right now it's set up as such:
- Requires a confirmation when 7 or more NPCs are at a destination
- Clears movement queue
- Excludes horses and immobiles (such as steamstalk mushrooms) edit: and livestock animals
- Only on compass/"go" movements
- With groups, this only affects leader and not the followers
- Does not occur in major town and most outposts (where there are likely to be larger groups of guards in rooms here and there)

Movement-affecting stuff can often get a bit fiddly, so please report any bugs/errors with the BUG command.
Feedback in general here on this thread would be very much appreciated. Is this more annoying than useful? Does the number need to be higher or lower than 7? Do more considerations need to be made on which situations are exceptions or not?
It is deliberately not checking for hostility, as I prefer to keep this from being a long distance hostility checker. This means technically this would require a confirmation for moving into a room with, I don't know - 7 completely docile sheep. We can add more flags to creatures to make them exceptions if necessary. (I'm adding an exception for farm livestock as soon as I post this.)

I imagine this will require a lot of tuning to get into the "just right" zone, so again, please share suggestions and feedback!

[Gorth]

I would drop this to five, perhaps. It's rare to actually see stacks on the roads (for which this is made) above five or so, and it's also rare to see harmless NPCs gathered like that, either.

[Serity]

Five was also what I was thinking, though for that I would exclude any mobs that can naturally spawn in that room from causing the warning - most GM spawn groups that I've seen tend to be variant mobs anyways (but perhaps that's changed). Or perhaps when a GM spawns a creature, the creature is flagged (internally/invisibly) as special spawn, and it checks for those sorts of mobs?

[Gorth]

Does this count stealth mobs? Should we? It's obviously OOC, but also we have the warnings in front of the Canim Camp and stuff.

[Ronin]

While this is definitely an appreciated feature, I would like to point out that it actually only 4 mobs that insta-killed my character, which is sort of what prompted this whole thing. And for that matter, there was another room with 3 Liberi that would have done just as effective a job.

Having a command like this is a great step, but the definition of death stack absolutely changes based on the character who ends up blundering into them. I also really think it would help if we addressed the location of where the mobs are placed.

Again, not to be critical, but these current measures would not have forestalled the incident which prompted the consideration of these measures, and thus seem inadequate.

[tulpa]

I also really think it would help if we addressed the location of where the mobs are placed.

There might be some nostalgia talking, but I disagree with this particular point. I don't want people to come away frustrated, but I do really want the canyon to remain dangerous. We have a long history of violent encounters there; we have a lot of noticeboard posts advising caution in the area (some *very* recent, one a day or so prior to the events mentioned by Ronin). I make a point of advising characters seeking directions (usually to Blackwater) not to linger in the canyon if they can help it. And it's that very last bit that's the problem to me --- lingering perhaps being unavoidable --- that's something to address, not the prospect of peril on a well-used thoroughfare. I don't want GMs to feel like they have to tiptoe around players doing long-distance deliveries, or for the Wilderness to become toothless. I've done enough uneventful courier tasks to know that ultimately they depress me. The presence of hostiles should inconvenience players: they'll have to make a detour, or defer scavenging, or gather a band of warriors together.

I feel like the changes to CRAWL will definitely help, but I also wonder whether some changes are needed to Long-Distance Delivery tasks to highlight the potential dangers, besides running out of food. Can the Tutorials also be used to warn players more effectively, and explain mechanics like Fend and Combat Avoid, and how to carry out a good old expeditious retreat?

[Ronin]

I also really think it would help if we addressed the location of where the mobs are placed.

There might be some nostalgia talking, but I disagree with this particular point. I don't want people to come away frustrated, but I do really want the canyon to remain dangerous. We have a long history of violent encounters there; we have a lot of noticeboard posts advising caution in the area (some *very* recent, one a day or so prior to the events mentioned by Ronin). I make a point of advising characters seeking directions (usually to Blackwater) not to linger in the canyon if they can help it. And it's that very last bit that's the problem to me --- lingering perhaps being unavoidable --- that's something to address, not the prospect of peril on a well-used thoroughfare. I don't want GMs to feel like they have to tiptoe around players doing long-distance deliveries, or for the Wilderness to become toothless. I've done enough uneventful courier tasks to know that ultimately they depress me. The presence of hostiles should inconvenience players: they'll have to make a detour, or defer scavenging, or gather a band of warriors together.

I feel like the changes to CRAWL will definitely help, but I also wonder whether some changes are needed to Long-Distance Delivery tasks to highlight the potential dangers, besides running out of food. Can the Tutorials also be used to warn players more effectively, and explain mechanics like Fend and Combat Avoid, and how to carry out a good old expeditious retreat?

When the situation is "Walk into room. Die." There is no 'expeditious retreat'. It was literally just an immediate, unavoidable death, and it was blocking both of the 2 paths through the pass.

As I've said before, there's a difference between challenge and out-and-out assassination of a character. I'm sorry, but that's just not good game design.

[Karjus]

I also really think it would help if we addressed the location of where the mobs are placed.

There might be some nostalgia talking, but I disagree with this particular point. I don't want people to come away frustrated, but I do really want the canyon to remain dangerous. We have a long history of violent encounters there; we have a lot of noticeboard posts advising caution in the area (some *very* recent, one a day or so prior to the events mentioned by Ronin). I make a point of advising characters seeking directions (usually to Blackwater) not to linger in the canyon if they can help it. And it's that very last bit that's the problem to me --- lingering perhaps being unavoidable --- that's something to address, not the prospect of peril on a well-used thoroughfare. I don't want GMs to feel like they have to tiptoe around players doing long-distance deliveries, or for the Wilderness to become toothless. I've done enough uneventful courier tasks to know that ultimately they depress me. The presence of hostiles should inconvenience players: they'll have to make a detour, or defer scavenging, or gather a band of warriors together.

I feel like the changes to CRAWL will definitely help, but I also wonder whether some changes are needed to Long-Distance Delivery tasks to highlight the potential dangers, besides running out of food. Can the Tutorials also be used to warn players more effectively, and explain mechanics like Fend and Combat Avoid, and how to carry out a good old expeditious retreat?

When the situation is "Walk into room. Die." There is no 'expeditious retreat'. It was literally just an immediate, unavoidable death, and it was blocking both of the 2 paths through the pass.

As I've said before, there's a difference between challenge and out-and-out assassination of a character. I'm sorry, but that's just not good game design.

That might more be a reflection on the current state of stagger than anything.

[Ronin]

There might be some nostalgia talking, but I disagree with this particular point. I don't want people to come away frustrated, but I do really want the canyon to remain dangerous. We have a long history of violent encounters there; we have a lot of noticeboard posts advising caution in the area (some *very* recent, one a day or so prior to the events mentioned by Ronin). I make a point of advising characters seeking directions (usually to Blackwater) not to linger in the canyon if they can help it. And it's that very last bit that's the problem to me --- lingering perhaps being unavoidable --- that's something to address, not the prospect of peril on a well-used thoroughfare. I don't want GMs to feel like they have to tiptoe around players doing long-distance deliveries, or for the Wilderness to become toothless. I've done enough uneventful courier tasks to know that ultimately they depress me. The presence of hostiles should inconvenience players: they'll have to make a detour, or defer scavenging, or gather a band of warriors together.

I feel like the changes to CRAWL will definitely help, but I also wonder whether some changes are needed to Long-Distance Delivery tasks to highlight the potential dangers, besides running out of food. Can the Tutorials also be used to warn players more effectively, and explain mechanics like Fend and Combat Avoid, and how to carry out a good old expeditious retreat?

When the situation is "Walk into room. Die." There is no 'expeditious retreat'. It was literally just an immediate, unavoidable death, and it was blocking both of the 2 paths through the pass.

As I've said before, there's a difference between challenge and out-and-out assassination of a character. I'm sorry, but that's just not good game design.

That might more be a reflection on the current state of stagger than anything.

There wasn't time for me to be staggered. I walked into the room, I was attacked by 4 Liberi, I was dead. That was pretty much the sequence of events. It was like 1 round of smearing, and then it was over. I was level 2?-ish? Maybe as high as 4, had pretty much no gear, and was just obliterated.

[tulpa]

I wasn't questioning the value of some prior warning. Hopefully these changes will provide that, with some fine-tuning.

But I still want dangerous creatures to occupy places where they aren't expected, rather than keeping to the confines of their forts and lairs.

Canyon's blocked however you look at it? Find another route (there is one!)

EDIT: Thinking about it, I do wonder if barricades should be used more widely to foreshadow large groups like that.