Skill practice and challenge

[Navi]

Debuffs on your characters won't work to your advantage according to the first post. If this mechanic holds true for NPCs, debuffing them might work. Though, like you said that seems pretty janky.
To Lex's comment, that's great you had those self-imposed restrictions. Majority of players did not though, and even those who did had a completely different experience than how it works currently. I'd be interested to know what the skill gains are like, and will probably do some testing soonish. Before, it didn't matter what you fought, it was a .20 gain in practice. That's less than 11 minutes of open combat with any target, no matter the skill range. Not much of a reason to feel disrespected, in my opinion.

[Lexx416]

To Lex's comment, that's great you had those self-imposed restrictions. Majority of players did not though, and even those who did had a completely different experience than how it works currently. I'd be interested to know what the skill gains are like, and will probably do some testing soonish. Before, it didn't matter what you fought, it was a .20 gain in practice. That's less than 11 minutes of open combat with any target, no matter the skill range. Not much of a reason to feel disrespected, in my opinion.

It's disrespectful of my time to add a punitive measure across the board for something that wouldn't provide better feedback or improve community health. If people want to experience the changes, they have the option to skill decrease, or roll up a new character.

[Karjus]

Debuffs on your characters won't work to your advantage according to the first post. If this mechanic holds true for NPCs, debuffing them might work. Though, like you said that seems pretty janky.
To Lex's comment, that's great you had those self-imposed restrictions. Majority of players did not though, and even those who did had a completely different experience than how it works currently. I'd be interested to know what the skill gains are like, and will probably do some testing soonish. Before, it didn't matter what you fought, it was a .20 gain in practice. That's less than 11 minutes of open combat with any target, no matter the skill range. Not much of a reason to feel disrespected, in my opinion.

Debuffing mobs should not work. If it does, that is a bug. Gains are based on "Base Rolls" and not modified, whether from injury, position, or armor penalties.

The game is also constantly being updated and changed, and things from crafting to combat riln drops being adjusted. While people might start finding limitations to what they are capable of doing with their skills, or finding certain tasks less profitable, I'd find it very odd if Rias started rolling back this one specific case in comparison to everything else.

[Serity]

Didn't re-read the first post, thanks for pointing that out, Navi, so encumbrance shouldn't affect it (whether intentionally or not).

Debuffing mobs should not work. If it does, that is a bug. Gains are based on "Base Rolls" and not modified, whether from injury, position, or armor penalties.

Breaking limbs inflicts negative rerolls, it doesn't touch the actual die itself (to my knowledge), so it should work. Forcing -6 rerolls onto an opponent's attacks (moderate arm fracture + moderate hand fracture) is going to gutter their offense, so you can just stand there and dodge them all day until you're capped, unless you get real unlucky with your dodge rolls.

[Karjus]

Didn't re-read the first post, thanks for pointing that out, Navi, so encumbrance shouldn't affect it (whether intentionally or not).

Debuffing mobs should not work. If it does, that is a bug. Gains are based on "Base Rolls" and not modified, whether from injury, position, or armor penalties.

Breaking limbs inflicts negative rerolls, it doesn't touch the actual die itself (to my knowledge), so it should work. Forcing -6 rerolls onto an opponent's attacks (moderate arm fracture + moderate hand fracture) is going to gutter their offense, so you can just stand there and dodge them all day until you're capped, unless you get real unlucky with your dodge rolls.

Skill gains and how they work in terms of Vs has been around before rerolls even first got introduced to combat.

The relevant fact from that comment is the fact that "Skill manipulation" doesn't effect them.

[Rias]

We don't intend to lower anyone's skills. People are making new characters pretty frequently, and there are plenty of long-time characters that haven't ground their defense skills up to their goals yet, so I think we'll be okay in the testing/feedback area. If anyone wants to make a new character to test this stuff, go nuts!

I've got a change in testing now that has armor hindrance cause negative rerolls rather than mess with dice sides, since the current hindrance effect is a relic of a time before rerolls had become the standard way to implement bonuses and penalties. (In related news, partial rerolls are also on the way!) This update will also have Armor Hindrance procs show up in the list provided by the ShowProcs option, so that'll make it that much clearer how often one is suffering these penalties and how many negative rerolls it's causing.

That's a good list of pain points, thanks for pointing them out! Lots of stuff to take into consideration, and it's already inspired some potential solution ideas.

Defense against various combat maneuvers has needed a look-at for a long time.

Dodge-replacer abilities make for weird and wonky situations and still need a lot of things about them figured out, unfortunately.

I think the "break an enemy's limbs for ideal dodge practice" is a bit goofy, yeah, but I still like it better than "stand in front of ravens for your entire defense training career." It's getting people out into different areas and experiencing different mobs, which is what we want! A lot of effort goes into making all those zones and their inhabitants. And hey, maybe it'll inspire a new "call for help when in distress" AI for some mobs or something.

On a similar note - and in partial answer to the pain points brought up - it would probably be good to have some more combat zones that aren't as lethal for training purposes. Preferably with little in the way of loot and maybe not as much experience per mob, so then there's a choice of going out to train in the less-lethal areas, or going out for loot in the more-lethal areas. I need to chase that "loot based on mob capabilities" butterfly.

[Lexx416]

I think the "break an enemy's limbs for ideal dodge practice" is a bit goofy, yeah, but I still like it better than "stand in front of ravens for your entire defense training career." It's getting people out into different areas and experiencing different mobs, which is what we want! A lot of effort goes into making all those zones and their inhabitants. And hey, maybe it'll inspire a new "call for help when in distress" AI for some mobs or something.

On a similar note - and in partial answer to the pain points brought up - it would probably be good to have some more combat zones that aren't as lethal for training purposes. Preferably with little in the way of loot and maybe not as much experience per mob, so then there's a choice of going out to train in the less-lethal areas, or going out for loot in the more-lethal areas. I need to chase that "loot based on mob capabilities" butterfly.

With the new practice changes, I do think that this means there's a place for areas more like the Mossy Shamblers. I currently just skip those guys (partially because many combat maneuvers don't work against them, but also because of the lack of loot). I also think that makes a case for areas like the infested badgers having a higher spawn-rate - mobs that are potentially terrible if they gang up on you, but are otherwise pretty easy to handle solo as long as you're careful and intentional and don't offer riln rewards (I was grinding at that area once or twice, and liked it, but the spawn rates seemed low so I quickly had to move on).

[Rias]

I do think that this means there's a place for areas more like the Mossy Shamblers [...] infested badgers

This is a very good point that fills me with joy!

[Gorth]

I've played every warrior in this game to a moderate level except for Guardian.

Training defensive skills as you level Melee is absolutely fine. It literally just happens as you fight. I don't understand.

[Gorth]

Double post, my bad.

Rias, I'm not sure if you're aware, but if you take a hit, you gain practice for both Dodge and Shield Use. This is actually what makes it fine, if you're grinding both of them. It just halves your time.