Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

If the topic doesn't fit anywhere else, discuss it here.
Gorth
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:53 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Gorth »

As this topic has had a little while to mature, I am curious if you, Rias, can give us any specifics on how the ability trees will work and look? I ask mainly because I wish to begin drafting suggestions to widen the trees, but I am unsure as to what sort of abilities to begin creating.

You mentioned earlier in a Casual Voice Chat that you were expecting abilities to become more numeric and statistical, smaller subfeatures with a focus on making the characters' goaling process feel more modular and controllable. Is this still the case? How does it look? How numeric are we talking? What are your general plans to keep this from becoming a minmax situation?
There is no fully eliminating minmaxing in a game with numerically adjustable abilities, but how much work should be put into making sure things do not become build-y?

Do you invision having some abilities with tiers? For example, perhaps taking higher tiers of 'Followup Punch' increases the maximum damage a small amount at tier two, the chance for another punch at tier three, the chance for stagger at tier four, and the minimum damage at tier five.


I have a lot of ideas, but I want to make sure I'm not shouting into the void and invalidating my ideas once the system unveils by virtue of my assumptions about the plans being very wrong.
:undm_scales_key: :shagerd:
Proud owner of the ten thousandth post.
Gorth
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2021 11:53 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Gorth »

Something that I neglected to ask as well is, 'Will the spread of ability points be changing?' If we have to spend an ability point on abilities that are going to be much more minor than before, most people are going to struggle to have the same things they did before the change. Which is alright, but I'm just concerned about scale.
:undm_scales_key: :shagerd:
Proud owner of the ten thousandth post.
Ephemeralis
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:29 am

Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Ephemeralis »

Having never been privy to the Other Game, I am very excited for more opportunities to engage with and learn about Rook Parlour. This all seems excellent.
User avatar
Rias
DEV
Posts: 2024
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:06 pm
Location: Wandering Temicotli

Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Rias »

Gorth wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:06 am I am curious if you, Rias, can give us any specifics on how the ability trees will work and look?
The general structure is shaping up like this:

- Skill nodes: At the moment, every single ability tree begins branching from a starting node based on our current lineup of skills (and some new ones): Metalworking, Bushcraft, Pottery, Sorcery, Psychology, Physiology, etc. Abilities branch out from these starting nodes. There can be cross-skill paths, though. There are some planned abilities that can be got to by starting at either Riding or Animal Husbandry for instance, and some that can be got to via either Artifice or Stealth, etc.

- Specialization nodes: A character can only pick one specialization from the parent node, locking the character out of the other specialization branches coming from that particular node. There aren't many of these at the moment, but as an example: Branching from the Melee node are three specialization branches: Finesse Combat, Pragmatic Combat, and Heavy Combat. Choosing one will lock the character out from the other two.

- Class nodes: A character can only pick one class node across ALL ability trees. This is our Dreadnought, Physicker, Ranger, etc. In other words: No multi-class Dreadnought-Rangers or Warlock-Bards. Same situation as current, different implementation. If I choose the Treasure Hunter class node of the Perception tree, then I can no longer choose the Rogue class node of the Artifice tree. Some classes can be got to via multiple trees. Ranger can be chosen from either the Bushcraft or Tracking tree, Physicker can be chosen from either the Physiology or Psychology tree, Bard can be chosen from any of the Acrobatics, Music, or Storytelling trees.

- Synergy nodes: Requires multiple abilities from different branches to unlock this path. There aren't many of these at the moment. An example would be that the Physicker class node and the Psychology skill node are both required to unlock the Therapy branch. (There are some Psychology abilities that can be taken without being a Physicker.)
Gorth wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:06 amYou mentioned earlier in a Casual Voice Chat that you were expecting abilities to become more numeric and statistical, smaller subfeatures with a focus on making the characters' goaling process feel more modular and controllable. Is this still the case? How does it look?
I don't know about smaller. I've tried to include all abilities that currently exist pretty much as they are, though a few have been split into multiple abilities.
Gorth wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:06 amWhat are your general plans to keep this from becoming a minmax situation? There is no fully eliminating minmaxing in a game with numerically adjustable abilities, but how much work should be put into making sure things do not become build-y?
I think I'm less worried about minmaxing and more worried about cherry-picking, hence the tree model where investments need to be made to get to certain abilities rather than just picking out the "best" ones a la carte. A reasonable degree of minmaxing or theorycrafting can be fun and make builds more enjoyable to come up with. I do want to avoid everyone doing the exact same paths, but I consider that a separate issue.
Gorth wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:06 amDo you invision having some abilities with tiers? For example, perhaps taking higher tiers of 'Followup Punch' increases the maximum damage a small amount at tier two, the chance for another punch at tier three, the chance for stagger at tier four, and the minimum damage at tier five.
Yes, I want to allow for players with a narrower scope in mind for their character to be able to invest more into their path and get more out of it so they don't feel they have to spread their points into abilities that they really don't want, but have the points so they might as well. If someone wants to be a hyperfocused fighter or crafter or whatever, I want them to be able to spend all their points on that and see a payoff for that focused investment. Not everyone wants to branch out to a bunch of different things, and that's fine. I imagine warriors will tend to gravitate toward the more focused approach while I'm guessing many crafters will be torn between diversity or focus.
Gorth wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 8:12 am Will the spread of ability points be changing?
No plans to increase ability point numbers at the moment. The idea is to give more options to choose from, not to increase any single character's capabilities any wider than current. If abilities do end up being boiled down to be smaller and more granular than current, and multiple tiers per ability becomes a more common thing that the system starts being built around as a foundational concept, then the ability point cap would be reconsidered. For the moment though, it's being built with the current scope and "ability heft" in mind.
Ephemeralis wrote: Thu May 04, 2023 7:01 amI am very excited for more opportunities to engage with and learn about Rook Parlour.
I am so excited to get these organizations out there and important again. I really feel like it's going to add so much more feeling to the world, and they're going to give characters opportunities to feel like they have a place in it rather than everyone just being wandering unassociated vagabonds. (Not that one can't still choose to be a wandering unassociated vagabond if one wanted, as long as one doesn't have aspirations that require particularly specialized knowledge that would need to be gained through the right circles/associations.)
<Rias> PUT ON PANTS
<Fellborn> NO
Dennis
Posts: 218
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:46 am

Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Dennis »

The weight of ability points feels a little skewed for Arcanists right now, since over a dozen points are tied up with the glyph retention expansion abilities. Is the Arcana Glyph Retention ability (repeatable) going to be looked at with the new branching paths, or do you feel like it would still function congruently with the future of abilities?
"Always remember that we are a community before anything else. Before being a 'game' or a 'world' we are a bunch of folk who get together to have fun."
Squeak
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2023 6:26 am

Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Squeak »

I'm getting more and more excited about this change the more I hear about it. I just have one question: Will we be able to "re-roll" active characters (i.e. Guild and class choices) after such a monumental change has been made?
User avatar
Fellborn
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:34 pm

Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Fellborn »

Squeak wrote: Fri May 05, 2023 8:12 pm I'm getting more and more excited about this change the more I hear about it. I just have one question: Will we be able to "re-roll" active characters (i.e. Guild and class choices) after such a monumental change has been made?

While this is a system change, classes and specializations are not fundamentally changing. Nightblades are still going to be good at what they were good at previously, and Rangers are going to be as well. It will allow people to potentially broaden their arsenal of talents or double-down but they are not becoming something completely different.
As such, we're not expecting any rerolls in terms of Class/Specialization to be available. If one does become available in the future, it will be very limited in scope and with very specific parameters for people switching to Artisans when/if that happens.
Verel
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:35 am

Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Verel »

So are there eventually going to be artisans and such?

I've long been into the crafter's aspect of stuff because even though it's a bit of code making a virtual item, I can still imagine myself actually making it and I love where my imagination takes me.

I hope so because I just love the idea of the satisfaction of making something that turns out really nice.
User avatar
Fellborn
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:34 pm

Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Fellborn »

Verel wrote: Sat May 06, 2023 6:07 am So are there eventually going to be artisans and such?
I think When/If succinctly sums up the current status of Artisans and their implementation.
User avatar
Rastaban
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:42 pm

Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Rastaban »

This is wonderful news! I will be so happy to join the Rook Parlour once again if they will see potential in me.
Post Reply