Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

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Kaliyah
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Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Kaliyah »

So I’m not a fan of posting my feelings or opinions to a public forum like this but I felt the need to speak on this topic in particular. That being said I enjoy the game I enjoy the people I get to interact with in the game and I love you all even if my opinion may not be the same as everyone else’s opinion. That being said I am not a fan of my class having anything to do with the society I choose. I consider being a bard as my skill set and being a harbinger as my religious choice lash organization. I don’t feel like being a bard and using the words has anything to do with me being a harbinger and I’m just not a fan of having to join an organization in order to keep those words.
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Maina
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Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Maina »

My one and only concern was similar; I made a Bard specifically to become a Harbinger of Ujaeio (as the suspected originator of the techniques), so of Harbingers are a society choice and Mummers seem to be a society choice, making it mutually exclusive.
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Xandrea
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Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Xandrea »

This makes me genuinely excited. Though I do enjoy the idea that guilds are generic. It does strip them of their meaning in some ways. "I'll never feel right with classes." Is what I usually proselytize. With the ideas proposed for the skill trees however. I feel a lot more comfortable within my confines. I have been building sub-optimal for an idea I've been trying to figure out how to execute for a very long time. My skillsheet wildly waxes and wanes one way or the other as I continue to attempt translating my character's idea. I've been a bit uncomfortable with the highlights I would attempt to put on her. Combat is not everything but, I/Remilia feel like we 'need' to be able to do it. The issue is that before it never mattered how much I invest into that idea. If I pushed them as far as I possibly could as a Warlock I'm still simply helpless against anyone that does it as a class. When push comes to shove in a serious situation. I'm forced into the backline. We can't be where we want to be. Thusly we cannot make that investment shine beyond it being novel as a concept to other players with things as they are this moment.

I'll admit outright that I started out wanting to jack of all trades. Back then I was resentful of a skill cap. Back then isn't now however. It's taken me awhile to figure out it's value. With skill trees being implemented. That allows me to make my investments shine. It certainly makes me feel like I'm truly doing something with the skillpoints I'm investing. Most importantly it doesn't make my specialization/class/guild feel like a suffocating decision. I have my choice of guild and it is an important part of my character. As always though. I never like that being the only thing my character is ever defined by. Outside of obvious RP of course but, RP and engaging with the system are very different measures of a character. Sometimes with wildly different results.

I think this is the change I've always been waiting for. I have been keeping rather quiet. Someone made me rather self-awares to the fact that I had a lot of negativity to provide. So I really only want to chime in when I have something to give that's positive. I'm trying not to be overtly negative on things. I can't see where the specialists might think that they're being threatened. To me being a specialist 'is' the threat. Finally being given permission to have a looser collar lets me know that now every character in my class won't be another me. They won't feel extremely pressured to be "good" and have higher skills in the class itself. Which gives a freedom that highlights the people that do want to specialize and gives other characters different ways to shine that aren't obvious. It took me forever to realize that I don't really need 700 in Sorcery. Or that really I don't need to have 600 in something to be decent. I only have to invest in the things we decide we want to be good at. I don't want to be a surface level character skill-wise but, in my position I didn't have any meaningful choices outside of being another "super skilled up Warlock". I look forward to that changing. I don't want to open a single sorcery channel and have someone be able to judge that alone as the entire measue of what my charcter can do. We're not just another Warlock.

This is super long to read. I'm sorry if I ramble a little too much. It may not be worded entirely the best but, that's how feelings are.
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Rilulth
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Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Rilulth »

We appreciate the feedback and look forward to when things will be available to test further.

As with all new things, there will be things that crop up that we don't forsee until we have the data to work with. When we have that and live feedback, tweaks can be made, issues can be seen clearer and alternative things can be crafted. Being an alpha game, this can be expected.

Having seen and added to the skill trees and discussed in length the societies, I am very excited about this. I do understand people's concerns, especially those of you coming from the other game, but this is not that game. We listen to feedback so long as it's given constructive (like it has been in this thread) rather than "Well this is dumb. I hate this. It's just stupid is all." Enter this new change with an open mind.
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Candelori
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Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Candelori »

It is heartening to hear that these guilds and societies I am so fond of will be increasingly present and recognized. Stormholdt's progress toward a greater identity certainly has me intrigued. The recent developments in COGG have drawn me back in with the feeling of excitement and optimism and I am eager to be involved in any of it however I can.
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Karjus
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Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Karjus »

This is honestly one of those things that the more I think about it, the more I hate it.

I personally was super excited about seeing a variety of different builds/archetypes being involved in societies. The way things were laid out originally, it was all about getting involved to push and further ideology.

I'd honestly rather see a class-selection on creation system than this.
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Rias
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Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Rias »

Have you decided if investing in the Class Specializations for the Skill Trees will be unlearnable, similar to how abilities are now?
Class choice would still be permanent and not possible to unlearn if we move to this system.
Have you decided how ability unlearning will work with the trees? IE, can we unlearn the first ability down a line to unlearn everything after it, or will we have to unlearn them one at a time?
It would require unlearning each ability individually.

Update on the "will Rooks/Mummers/Qamar just to learn occult abilities count as Societies?" matter (TL;DR: Most likely not):

While continuing to ponder the matter, current leaning is: The occult group affiliations (Rooks with advanced sorcery, Mummers for Words, etc.) would be largely for lore/feel purposes and wold not count as a Society choice. This would essentially be a "guild" joining (now that Warrior/Scholar/Adventurer would no longer be a guild classification) and would leave Society options open still. So there could be a Rook Parlour member who could still go on to join the Harbingers, or a Mummers member who could go on to join Wyrvardn, etc. Occult-teaching "guilds" would still be reserved for those who have chosen the associated classes - Warlock class required for Rooks, Bard class for Mummers, etc. No Dreadnought-Mummers or Ranger-Rooks, sorry.

It'd be essentially what Druids already do now: They choose their class, get a recommendation provided via an ability offered by their class trainer, go get initiation and teaching from a particular organization, and this opens up access to some further occult abilities to supplement their class. These groups (Rooks, Mummers, etc.) won't be particularly heavy on cause and such, but may still hold members to some basic standards within their organizations inasmuch as their members are essentially acting as representatives of their greater group by affiliation. They won't be especially strict, but may still call on members to do certain tasks or get involved in things, or tell them that they're not okay with particular actions that a member has taken.

I ask everyone to do their best in not jumping to some kind of "good vs evil" assumption regarding the above and thinking there will be restrictions of that nature. The organizations aren't aligned that way and will be understanding of all the Societies, save perhaps Rooks and the Anti-Nethrim and Ascetics which is less about the Rooks saying no to it and more about the wielding of nether not meshing with the causes or disciplines of those Societies. Those Societies weren't going to let in any sorcerers in any case, Rook Parlour or otherwise. That's nothing new.

An example of something a Rook would have to worry about would be something along the lines of egregiously indefensible acts, such as a Rook using Rook-specific rituals/spells to cause a major haunting of one of the major faction outposts or something. That would reflect poorly on the Parlour and give them trouble in future dealings with that faction. The Rook Parlor would understandably want to take some kind of disciplinary action in response to one of their members doing that. On the other hand they'd also do their best to be aware of circumstances. Was it during an already ongoing act of war, and the Rook was just contributing to their side's efforts against an opposing faction? If so, that could well seem justifiable to the Rooks, and they would pass accountability for the act off to the factions involved for being at war. If it was just the Rook doing some independent act of terror for the evulz - not so justifiable, and the Rooks would want to crack down on that so it doesn't continue to happen and tarnish their reputation. In the end, it serves as a way to make the recipients of these exceptional occult powers feel like they should think about their actions before doing something just because they can with their phenomenal cosmic power they've been taught.

All this is in an effort to have it feel more believable and make sense that these special occult powers are actually coming from specific groups who are specifically capable of teaching them, rather than just being handed out with apparent abandon by faceless background NPCs (or PCs just assuming they learned it on their own or some-such).

Moving on to a few points of clarification ...

- No lore, organizations, or history are getting retconned. Stormholdt isn't going away, the Library of Qamar isn't going away. Currently-existing characters having gone to these places to learn their current skills and abilities is still canon. What's happening is IC: Some of the trainers of specific skills/abilities are moving to more independent groups/locations in an IC manner for IC reasons. Click on this link to see the thread about Rooks leaving the Library of Qamar as an example. Others are being made more openly available -without- having to necessarily go to specific organizations, such as Stormholdt and the Library. Current warriors who have previously joined Stormholdt can, if all their desired skills and abilities are available elsewhere, decide they don't want to retain their affiliation with Stormholdt anymore. Nobody will get upset or in trouble over it - it was always a purely a neutral matter of business and professional training, not a lifetime commitment or dedication to a cause. If they want to continue going to Stormholdt, or go back later after a long absence, that's fine too. (They really should start charging monthly dues soon(tm) though!)

- In the potential new class/ability system, Druidic Bond and the initiation process/abilities would still be available to Berserkers and Rangers, same as currently implemented. Nobody would be losing any of their abilities. Dwaedn Wyr will not be required for Berserkers who want Druidry or any of the current druidry abilities, but will be an option for a few extra abilities and flavor in return for those who are willing to commit to the Dwaedn Wyr lifestyle. Those who want to keep on berserking how they are now without Dwaedn Wyr affiliation, that's fine too.

- Similar would be done for the Locksmithing skill and the Adventurer classes and Nightblades. Choosing those classes would essentially be a commitment to that sort of "training path" and would get those characters a recommendation to be allowed access to that guarded skill training. No one would be losing the skill, but no one outside the classes that already have access would be gaining new access the skill, either.
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artus
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Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by artus »

What will be the standing of Stormholdt after warriors leave to make branches though? It's essentially like a gigantic training school as it is. What purpose will it serve after the new class system is out? Are they still going to be a place for training of some sort? Are they going to expand beyond the gate and be something else?
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Rias
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Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Rias »

Stormholdt will continue to offer warrior training as current. I don't think any of the class trainers will feel moved to leave, though Nightblades will likely start sending people off to a particular trainer for those who want to pick up the sorcerous abilities.

Additional trainers will start popping up in other places though. We already have the Warrior Guild chapters in both major towns which makes this pretty effortless to implement in the case of Warriors.

Stormholdt will start establishing more of an identity for itself, serving as a great organization to be involved with for getting combat tasks and the like. Lorewise it's a great place for people to go to hire mercenaries (and for mercenaries to hang out at in order to get hired). They'll still be remaining largely neutral as the Lost Lands' premier combat training and mercenary supplier, but not to the point that they'll refuse to ever take a stance or have an opinion on anything. With there being alternative training options elsewhere for the warrior classes, Stormholdt can start having some semblance of personality and show their history a bit more, and if those things don't jive with a particular character, that character can just not go to Stormholdt and train elsewhere. (This also means Stormholdt could refuse to accept a particular character that doesn't jive with -them-.)

I do hope to provide a few perks for those who want to throw in with Stormholdt more dedicatedly, however. With these alternate options freeing me to give Stormholdt more of an identity, I'm excited to start developing it more as an organization! That will still be based around what they already are, though: A place famous for exceptional combat training and producing exceptional fighters. Add in some emphasis on the mercenary angle and that should give a good idea of who they are overall. Not especially deep and complicated, but not everything has to be.
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Jaster
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Re: Guilds, Societies, Factions, Characters, Skills, Abilities, the Lost Lands, Scope, COGG

Post by Jaster »

Noice.
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