On Warlock Sorcery and Ranged Combat

The harnessing and manipulation of nether.
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Rias
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Re: On Warlock Sorcery and Ranged Combat

Post by Rias »

This suggestion, or ones like it, have come up a number of times. I still prefer the Sorcery skill to help in their combat situations in some other way than substituting in for Ranged skill. Sorcery ranged attacks are still ranged projectile attacks that need to be aimed, and I don't feel like Warlocks are particularly strapped for skill points. Is expecting them to invest in Ranged skill to do well at ranged combat somehow preventing them from realizing their full potential as Warlocks?

Sorcery as a skill needs more of a point and a purpose on its own, and I imagine that's a big part of why this subject tends to come up. Warlocks see all their Sorcery skill and think - rightly - that it's really not doing a whole lot for them. But I don't think making it a substitute for Ranged Combat is the answer. As I always say, I don't want the occult Scholar classes to be one-skill wonders, where they just max out their occult skill and that makes them great at everything that they do because they do everything via that occult means. That kind of thing has always been one of my biggest pet peeves about magic classes in other games; they often seem to have lower investment requirements for a wider scope of utility and power, "because magic".

Having an ability that adds a small amount to their ranged attack roll based on their Sorcery skill could potentially work, but the lion's share of the roll should still come from the Ranged Combat skill. If there's some spell/ability that gives them a greater offense based on their skill, that would have to be limited in some way, like being on a cooldown or requiring extra energy/channels/soul shreds, so it's not just an "always on" thing. The Warlock would need to decide when they have their "let's get dangerous" moment. Because Warlocks should be able to powerful and scary, yes ... but Warlock School isn't a combat school. That doesn't mean they should be the worst in combat, but it does mean Warlocks aren't trained specifically to be extraordinary combatants. They may have more combat-related electives than other scholars, but that's not the end all be all of Warlocks and sorcery.

Having some spells that aren't conventional ranged projectiles could see more influence from the Sorcery skill. The tricky part with these is how to fairly determine related defenses for the target. Some existing abilities that might make good candidates are Binding Tendril and Essence Leech. They're not technically throwing a projectile, they're reaching out with the nether-tendrils. They could still be dodged/blocked as normal but pull more from the Warlock's Sorcery skill for a higher offense roll. Probably have them act as a lower (than ranged) Reach attack though and not a true ranged attack.

Regarding pure ranged attacks though (raw sorcery casts), I still say that if a character wants to be focused on ranged combat, I can't think of any reason not to require them to invest in the skill that's there for people who want to be focused on ranged combat.
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TheCacklackian
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Re: On Warlock Sorcery and Ranged Combat

Post by TheCacklackian »

Rias wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 3:47 pm This suggestion, or ones like it, have come up a number of times. I still prefer the Sorcery skill to help in their combat situations in some other way than substituting in for Ranged skill. Sorcery ranged attacks are still ranged projectile attacks that need to be aimed, and I don't feel like Warlocks are particularly strapped for skill points. Is expecting them to invest in Ranged skill to do well at ranged combat somehow preventing them from realizing their full potential as Warlocks?
It's less that we're strapped for skill points in the grand scheme of things, but early on we very much so are from a level to level basis. Stealth+Ranged combat+Dodge+(ideally)perception+Sorcery adds up really fast, and makes investing in more roleplay skills feel like a 'later me' thing. Ultimately, it takes up 5,800, meaning if your intent is to play a combat based warlock, you're probably spending the first upwards of 50 levels taking mostly combat skills just to be competitive, and even then adventurers, who are also not meant to be combat savvy, excel at both the aspects we need to dip our toes into for combat(That being stealth and ranged combat). That being said, I understand if you want to keep raw casts purely as a ranged combat thing, and I understand why scholars are unlikely to get changed combat or stealth caps, I'm going to read through the rest of your post and see if I can somehow extrapolate ideas.
Rias wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 3:47 pm Having an ability that adds a small amount to their ranged attack roll based on their Sorcery skill could potentially work, but the lion's share of the roll should still come from the Ranged Combat skill. If there's some spell/ability that gives them a greater offense based on their skill, that would have to be limited in some way, like being on a cooldown or requiring extra energy/channels/soul shreds, so it's not just an "always on" thing. The Warlock would need to decide when they have their "let's get dangerous" moment. Because Warlocks should be able to powerful and scary, yes ... but Warlock School isn't a combat school. That doesn't mean they should be the worst in combat, but it does mean Warlocks aren't trained specifically to be extraordinary combatants. They may have more combat-related electives than other scholars, but that's not the end all be all of Warlocks and sorcery.
What about a tactics:warlock (Yes I know warlocks aren't a warrior class, but the tactics system is in place, and I think it would be the most suitable as a toggle ability rather than a cooldown based buff) while in such a tactics, you expend soul shreds, or perhaps sanity(we could really use more sanity stuff in game, and I'm partial to a resource that can't just be grinded out for a numbers bonus) to boost our combat prowess, be it adding part of our sorcery to ranged attack rolls or some sort of rerolls? This gives such boon a cost, and may even make willpower feel more worth it on a warlock in regards to the sanity drain.

Edit:Grammer
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