The Artisan Guild (and other profession thoughts)

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Delphine
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The Artisan Guild (and other profession thoughts)

Post by Delphine »

The Artisan Guild is dedicated to the pursuit of the artistry which can be found within advanced crafting techniques as well as the trading of goods and services. Membership dues are 5,000 riln per month.

CLASS SPECIALIZATIONS
Armorer - Artisans who specialize in the production and refinement of arms and armor, capable of crafting exquisite goods.
Carpenter - Woodworkers capable of crafting exquisite goods, employing workers from a sawmill to aid in the processing of felled trees, and building structures with a more artistic flair.
Clothier (or Stylist) - Tailors and jewelsmiths who specialize in ensuring one looks their best, capable of working with luxury fabrics and metals and crafting exquisite goods.
Trader (or Mercantiler) - Artisans who have dedicated themselves to the pursuit of haggling, trading, and the importing and exporting of goods. Though they cannot craft above superior quality items nor add unique finishing touches to finished products, they have the potential to acquire all manner of rare and unusual goods. For the right price.

GUILD SKILLS (above default caps)
  • Construction: 500
  • Leatherworking: 500
  • Jewelsmithing: 500 (new skill I will expand upon later)
  • Masonry: 500
  • Metalworking: 500
  • Mining: 500
  • Pottery: 500
  • Tailoring: 500
  • Trading: 500
  • Weaving: 500
  • Woodworking: 500
GUILD ABILITIES
Engrave
The ability to add some text to an item (same character limit as labels)? This is irreversible, so people will need to make sure they choose their artisan wisely. No ASCII art or symbols allowed or descriptions of doodles. Only words. This will then show on look that the item has some words written on it and can be read. For example, you can write: "Property of Black" on an item. But you couldn't do "~~~***Property of Black***~~~"

Temporary Market Stall
The ability to place a temporary market stall in a room where people can purchase your wares without you having to actively attend to your pop-up shop. You will need a handcart (or wagon) loaded up with wares in order to install the temporary stall. Anything in the handcart or wagon will be listed up for sale. The handcart or wagon will be locked in place until you uninstall it as a shop or the timer on it runs up. Any riln earned from sales will be deposited in one's bank if the stall is installed in your hometown or placed in the handcart or wagon if you're in the wilderness or not in your hometown. While acting as a temporary stall, the handcart or wagon will present in the room as "a temporary <wood type> market stall" and you can use the list command in that room to see the wares.

CLASS SPECIALIZATIONS (in detail)
The Armorer is a class specialization of the Artisan Guild.

Armorers specialize in the production and refinement of arms and armor - whether the latter be fashioned from cloth, leather, or metal - and are capable of crafting exquisite goods. Their mastery of their chosen trades allows them to add artistic finishing touches to finished products and also gives them the ability to work with rarer metals like sunsteel and celestium, should they ever acquire access to such things. For all that they are experts in the crafting of all manner of weapons, though, Armorers aren't particularly known for being experts at wielding them. Exquisite quality wooden weapons such as quarterstaffs and bows are beyond the crafting skills of an Armorer, though, and are best left to the hands of the more capable Carpenter.

CLASS ABILITIES
Advanced Techniques
The ability to work with materials classified as a certain grade of rare (such as sunsteel or celestium; I think everyone, even non-artisan crafters, should be able to work with riversteel).

Finishing Touches
This is an active use ability that allows an Armorer to add some artistic details to the item name/short description (unsure what you GMs call it here, but I'm referring to a string like "a superior steel triangle-bladed stiletto") of an item that they have crafted. The item must be classified as a weapon or a piece of armor. Using this ability will enter the Armorer into a menu like when you order a custom item at a store, letting them add various little details to the piece like a decorative pommel or some etching on the blade or haft, etc. Some of these finishing touches will require extra materials to achieve. Like say one option is a bejeweled pommel, they would need some appropriate gems in an open container that would be used.

Improve Quality
This is an active use ability that allows an Armorer to improve the quality of a leather, cloth, or metal item which is classified as either a weapon or piece of armor, assuming they have that appropriate skill (tailoring, leatherworking, and/or metalworking). They will be able to attempt to improve the quality of the item in question up to the maximum quality they could achieve from crafting (fine, superior, exquisite). The item in question doesn't have to be one they crafted themselves (can be crafted by another person or purchased from a NPC). A person cannot improve the quality of an item from, say, average to exquisite all in one go. Each attempt will improve the quality by one level if the roll is successful. If it fails, the quality will remain the same and never decrease (ie. a failed roll couldn't take a superior item back down to fine quality).

Properly Fitted
A temporary buff Armorers can give to other people by ensuring their armor is properly fitting to them. This either lightens their encumbrance a bit or gives them a morale boost or some other such thing.

CLASS SKILLS (above default caps)
  • Leatherworking: 700
  • Tailoring: 700
  • Metalworking: 700
–--
The Carpenter is a class specialization of the Artisan Guild.

Carpenters specialize in woodworking and construction and have learned the wisdom of outsourcing the processing of one's lumber. Through their mastery of their chosen art, they have acquired the ability to craft exquisite goods, add finishing touches to wooden products, and can even beautify the structures built upon a person's property.

CLASS ABILITIES
Clever Carpenter
Allows the Carpenter to purchase a rather expensive tag from a sawmill. After felling their own tree, the Carpenter can attach that tag to their felled tree, which will see some sawmill workers showing up to cart said tree off and debranch/chop it into logs for them. The Carpenter will receive a letter in the post when their tree is finished with being processed and they will have to journey to the sawmill and pick up their lumber themselves in their handcart or wagon and then cart it off to where it needs to go. Sawmill workers won't process lumber beyond large logs, so Carpenters will still need to saw them into timbers and planks themselves. Carpenters will still be responsible for their own stumps, though (womp womp).

Finishing Touches
Ability to add pretty final details to wooden products that the Carpenter has crafted themselves.

Improve Quality
This is an active use ability that allows a Carpenter to improve the quality of a wood item, up to the maximum quality they could achieve from crafting (fine, superior, exquisite). The item in question doesn't have to be one they crafted themselves (can be crafted by another person or purchased from a NPC). A person cannot improve the quality of an item from, say, average to exquisite all in one go. Each attempt will improve the quality by one level if the roll is successful. If it fails, the quality will remain the same and never decrease (ie. a failed roll couldn't take a superior item back down to fine quality). A Carpenter cannot improve the quality of an established structure on a farm, but they can beautify it!

Structure Beautification
The ability to mix paint (by combining dye and a paint base purchased from a NPC artisan shop) and then use that paint upon a farm structure or other large wooden thing (like a handcart? wagon?). This also gives them the ability to add some little pretty details to said structures and large wooden things like "a butterfly-etched fir animal hutch." Because muskrats need pretty homes, too. The larger a structure, the more jars of paint are required.

Wagon Construction
This ability teaches the Carpenter how to construct a wagon, which is a good deal larger than a handcart, cannot be pulled by hand, requires two horses hitched to it, can seat two people, and can hold a ridiculous amount of bodies…err. Stuff. General stuff. Requires four wheels and lots of lumber. They'll probably go on the open market for 100,000 riln each.

CLASS SKILLS (above default caps)
  • Construction: 700
  • Woodcutting: 500
  • Woodworking: 700
–--
The Clothier (or Stylist?) is a class specialization of the Artisan Guild.

Trained in all things fashion, the Clothier prides themselves on knowing just how to make themselves and their clients look their best through the use of an elegant wardrobe and proper styling. Due to their mastery in their chosen skills, a Clothier can work with luxury fabrics and metals, craft exquisite quality goods, and add finishing touches to their work which truly sets it apart from the rest.

CLASS ABILITIES
Advanced Techniques
Can work with rarer materials such as silk, velvet, and spidersilk, etc.

Finishing Touches
Can add pretty details to fabric, leather, or metal goods that they crafted so long as said items are classified as clothing or jewelry.

Improve Quality
Clothiers can improve the quality of fabric, leather, and metal goods, so long as the fabric/leather items are classified as clothing and not armor and so long as the metal goods are jewelry and not weapons or armor, etc.

Luxury Metals
Teaches a Clothier, through jewelsmithing, how to smelt metals like rose gold and white gold.

Properly Styled
A temporary buff they can give to other people. Morale boost and gives the other person the effect of being "Properly Styled", they feel more confident in the way their clothes are draping upon their person, etc.

CLASS SKILLS (above default caps)
  • Jewelsmithing: 700
  • Leatherworking: 700
  • Tailoring: 700
–--
The Trader (Mercantiler?) is a class specialization of the Artisan Guild.

Though Traders do not excel at any one craft beyond the realm of any other artisan, a Trader is a master at the art of haggling as well as the importing and exporting of goods. By leading caravans and working with trade contracts, a Trader can seek to acquire rarer items such as luxury fabrics, furs, metals, and curious artifacts which they can then sell to other artisans as well as the open market. The most martially inclined of the artisans, Traders are taught a few skills to help keep them alive while accompanying their caravans, though they will never know the combat prowess of a member of the Warrior Guild.

CLASS ABILITIES
Friends in High Places
Maybe a prereq for Master of Caravans which unlocks the ability to acquire certain rarer goods from caravans. LIKE COFFEE?! (Please, Rias, give me coffee).

Friends in Low Places
Maybe a prereq for Master of Caravans which unlocks the ability to acquire, uh, goods from caravans from less than reputable sources. Might earn some social clout with bandits or Shady Society, but also give the chance for illegal/stolen goods being found in caravan and potentially confiscated. Higher risk of this outcome in Mistral Lake. Shadgard officials less diligent.

Master of Caravans
The ability to spawn a caravan which will then need to be escorted to its destination (either Mistral Lake or Shadgard) in order to acquire the goods it carries. A Trader can hire on combat-minded persons to guard the caravan. Along the caravan's route, highwaymen will spawn based off of a few different factors such as the quality of the goods held in the caravan. Caravans, based off of the level the Trader chooses at spawn and based on the level of the Trader's trading skill, can hold anything from exotic furs to spices used in cooking to rare fabrics to gemstones, fancy chalk, etc. Low level caravans will have more basic goods, lockboxes, etc. Chances for super rare items (like a bar of riversteel) will be RARE but still possible at high levels of trading. Lots of RNG involved. I'm imagining there being certain caravan spots located throughout the Lost Lands, with the idea being that some of these spots are simply trading with other NPC outposts while others are seeing goods from outside the Lost Lands smuggled in. This would jive well with a membership in the Super Shady Society, allowing for some blackmarket shenanigans. If the Trader running the caravan is killed, the caravan is lost to the highwaymen. If a Trader has to abandon the caravan (like run to stay alive), there is a time limit in which they can rally more troops and return to the caravan to reclaim it from the highwaymen. Caravans work on a timer in which a Trader can only run one once every few days (or a week?), regardless of if the caravan failed or succeeded, to keep Traders from becoming too fabulously wealthy.

Opportunistic Bribery
Toss a random amount of riln onto the ground for an opportunity to distract your enemies! (Only works on humanoids.)

Shameless Coward
Duck behind a Warrior in your group and graciously let them take an incoming blow for your person, regardless of if they're guarding you or not.

You Saw Nothing
Ability to bribe guards at caravan inspection points when unloading a caravan in either Mistral Lake or Shadgard, in the event stolen goods are found on board and are about to be confiscated.

CLASS SKILLS (above default caps)
  • Melee: 500
  • Trading: 700
  • Ranged: 500
Last edited by Delphine on Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Delphine
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Re: The Artisan Guild (and other profession thoughts)

Post by Delphine »

OTHER THOUGHTS

On Quality
I liked your idea, Rias, that quality be based on a roll rather than a given. But, with this in mind, I would like to propose the following skill thresholds to achieve the various quality levels:
  • Fine at level 300
  • Superior at level 500
  • Exquisite at level 700
By bumping fine quality down 100 skill points, this gives non-artisan crafters a better chance to roll a fine quality item if they keep their crafting skills invested at 400 skill points. I think this will decrease chance for frustration as a non-artisan couldn't improve the quality of their crafted item if they had a bad RNG and ended up creating something average. I also like that there's a 200 skill point difference between each jump in quality.

New crafting skill: Jewelsmithing
I believe the ability to work with decorative metals such as gold and silver should be taken out of metalworking and put into jewelsmithing, which will also allow for an artisan to polish gemstones mined by miners and craft various pieces of jewelry from earrings to chokers to rings to decorative buckles a leatherworker can put onto a belt, etc. Jewelsmiths with the appropriate ability will also be able to smelt luxury metals such as rose gold (gold + copper) and white gold (gold + silver).

I'm happy to expand on this, Rias, if this tickles your fancy as a potential butterfly. As in, I'm offering to build out the list of crafted items, components, etc. I'm just running out of steam at the moment and don't want to devote a few hours to building that out now if you're like, "Meh," about the idea. But I'm imagining you could forge a chain and a pendant and then attach the two so you could have "a rose-gold butterfly pendant suspended on a silver chain" or something. This could also give more use for bones IC as a jewelsmith could also work with carving bones into jewelry. Or if that seems too barbaric, let's put bone jewelry into bushcraft. Or both? Both is good.

Leatherworking Recipe Addition
New recipe, artisan or not, that is "fur trim." You can ATTACH the trim to a fabric or leather item to then make it fur-trimmed. For example: a fur-trimmed hooded wool cloak. This is just for flavor. I don't think it should add warmth as I'm imagining the fur as a decorative border and not as a lining. Should it show the type of fur? A fox fur-trimmed hooded wool cloak. Some mink fur-trimmed leather boots. I dunno. Maybe? It would be cool. Makes it a bit wordier, though. I don't mind words, though, OBVIOUSLY.

Mining Skill Tweak
Let all miners regardless of artisan or not, at a certain skill threshold, have the ability to find a silver vein in either the Mistral Lake or Shadgard copper mine. A temporary vein, of course. Gold veins can be found in the Knackerspite Mine. Certain gems can be found in the Twin Falls(?) mine. Make all the mines relevant if one wants pretty pretties. I want to see people turning Knackerspite into a blood bath because their lady friend is hankering for a new gold ring. (I'm evil. I know. But the idea amuses me.)

Thoughts on the Trading Skill
I'm editing this in as it was brought up on the Discord and I wished to make my stance here known in regards to the Trading skill being within the Scholar or Artisan purview. So, I think Trading makes more sense as an Artisan skill, but I do think it should be available to the public. Everyone should be able to haggle if they want to (up to a certain skill point). But if you want to be REALLY good at it, then you need to be a Trader/Mercantiler (or whatever) in my opinion, as at that point it's less about being clever or having book smarts (which is what I feel is implied having it under the scholar umbrella) and more about what contacts you have within the upper crust or underworld that you can name drop to that NPC merchant who's trying to sell you that stupidly overpriced sheep's wool.
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Re: The Artisan Guild (and other profession thoughts)

Post by Janarc »

What I like about this is that a lot of it, maybe not all of it, seems like it could be implemented very quickly.

The caravans (I've played other games with a caravan system, and they're great fun) are probably the hardest thing to implement, but also the most unique feature.
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Re: The Artisan Guild (and other profession thoughts)

Post by nobody »

I wanted to post some past threads I've loved on this topic as well because between this post and the ones in the past there are some golden ideas.

3 class version with 4 ability suggestions: viewtopic.php?p=3555
4 class version with... a lot of ability suggestions: viewtopic.php?p=1837 (edit to add: this one dates back to when there was a metallurgy skill that was used for metalcasting, that is now part of the metalworking and mining skills instead).

And my own rambling post that gets more into the gritty details about how crafting rolls with an option for improvement might work: viewtopic.php?t=943 - I want to revisit it with different numbers at some point, but I'd love for anyone else to throw their thoughts into the pot as well.
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Re: The Artisan Guild (and other profession thoughts)

Post by Gorth »

I'd like to know, Rias, if this or any of the linked topics have hit your fancy in particular? I believe you're pretty set on there being such a guild, but I'm wondering what sort of feel has best hit what you think would work the best, so we know which kind of ideas to jump off of.
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Re: The Artisan Guild (and other profession thoughts)

Post by Rias »

Both this thread and another one by Irylia (viewtopic.php?p=2535&hilit=artisan+guild#p2535) have had several ideas that I've liked! I haven't locked in on the Artisan Guild yet so feel free to keep throwing ideas onto these posts, whether they follow either of these trains of thought or are from a new angle.
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Re: The Artisan Guild (and other profession thoughts)

Post by Gorth »

I feel that, when people hear 'Guild for Crafters' they instantly jump to, Blacksmith Specialization, Tailor Specialization, 'Builder Specialization, etcetera. What I like about COGG is, with the way skill and ability points are lain out, we very much more need vagueries that we can specializae ourselves. That's why I like Everyone in the guild getting a base of 500 in all of the crafting skills which, with Delphine's change in quality threshholds, would make them more likely to make Fine Goods that they're not class specialized in than someone outside of the guild as a general sort of asumption.

The idea of a Crafter's Guild, to me, is something like what I would imagine a Scholar's Guild being. A place/group for people to meet and share stories about the world of business, whether that be actually making the items, selling the items, etcetera. That translates, direcctly, to a baseline of skill in most things, in my mind, by virtue of simply being exposed to such things. That, of course, means moreso in a game like this, that they simply have more room to pluck around with skills.

However, really specializing in an environment like this is not about picking a specific craft and doing nothing but that, because that's boring, but finding the part of the business model you want to be a part of. That's why I like the ideas of having classes who specialize in working with utility pieces like armor and weapons, classes who specialize in making pretty, and classes who specialize in selling/finding business, and classes who specialize in starting the whole thing, A.K.A., resource gathering.

This particular sentiment, I think, models the idea that I've gotten from COGG's atmosphere by development. That being, of course, that we're all cogs in the machine, and we need people to do different things. Even the less glamorous things, like gathering resources.

As it stands, everyone gathers there own materials, repairs there own gear, makes there own items, and sells there own items. That, my dear, is boring!

That being said, I appreciate the ideas for general laborers to get extra energy, extra fast regen, extra strength, and general passives that let them work harder and faster. In adition, I like that perhaps the businessmen themselves might have passives for riln generation/item generation. The people who perform the more detail-oriented work might have more personally activated abilities relating to customizing work and overall making them better, plus, of course, small bonuses to their quality rolls.
I believe the Guild should have several vague general abilities that are rank based (give me more rank abilities):
  • Something for energy in general, passive pool boost/passive regen boost etcetera. Scales with something or other, maybe boosted by Constitution, only one or two ranks able to be taken by non-worker/traveller based classes. I think it could be neat to give this to Ranger, too, though they can certainly get energy surplusses with Druidry. Really, on that notee, a lot of abilities could be made general all use, but further specialization would require taking classes.
  • Something for passive boosts to quality rolls. Higher ranks given to Quality-build crafters. Higher ranks give a reroll; perhaps too powerful.
  • I'm in huge support for an ability to tag a tree, and let NPCs chip away at it, but I'm not sure how resource intensive that might be, or if it would just be stupidly good or something. Perhaps make it cost a silly amount of riln, but we still want them to make a profit. On that one.
  • A more specific ability to speed up tree/similar labor work. Passive chance to take off more branches per round, or similar. Higher ranks based on Woodcutting. It should be a privvlage and a game-changer to have a well-seasoned laborer on your team for labor-work, much as any high specialization should be. Two? That's game over for that poor tree. Bonus ability that they're super good at mucking out sheds, and can do it super fast.
I'm only stream of consciousness-ing, so I'll continue to add as I ponder, but, of course, the most work needs to be put into Quality ideas first. That's what Rias said he wanted to do before the guild itself, making the quality system very different, and more impactful.
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Re: The Artisan Guild (and other profession thoughts)

Post by Gorth »

As brought up in a casual voice chat a couple days ago, the addition of a guild who gets 700-ish crafting caps across the board, regardless of if we still allow non-artisan's chances to craft really good quality or not, sort of invalidates non-craft SPEKT builds. I'd like ideas on how to change this, if there even are any. I'll be honest, that conversation soured me on the idea of this whole thing a little. It wouldn't be so bad if we had a non-class based system, like CLOK, where you just skilled up in whatever you wanted and it just took time and investment, and maybe some of those skll caps were affected by guild, but to a minor degree, and the guilds meant more for RP and abilities. Obviously we can't just rip up the class system as it is, but what's the point of dumping a thousand points into leatherworking as a Warrior beyond selling good money to the market? players are still going to go to 700 Artisans for the leatherworked items with thefancy quality tag in the description that I'll just never get. If you asked some of the other people who have taken leatherworking high, I'm sure they'll also tell you that a lot of fun was gained by roleplaying with customers. We just won't get that.

I still am interested in this, though, so how can we change that? We need to preserve the ecosystem and machine where every part has a role.
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Re: The Artisan Guild (and other profession thoughts)

Post by Firesong »

Maybe this isn't as big a deal as it feels, or maybe it is. I just felt the need to stress that being invalidated as a crafter as the result of someone "doing it better" would be a huge demoralizer for me. I would really hate to start over, because I've come to realize that crafting is sort of my jam, and I've already spent a ton of time on improving those skills. I really hope that we can come up with some ideas before this happens, because I know I'm not the only person who feels this way.
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Re: The Artisan Guild (and other profession thoughts)

Post by shewel »

Gorth wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2023 8:18 amsort of invalidates non-craft SPEKT builds
I haven't been attending these. What is a non-craft SPEKT build? Just trying to understand the nature of the concern broadly.
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