Bucklers and parrying

[Reslior]

In trying to set up a character focused on the use of a sword and buckler I've run into some interesting crossed wires with the functionality of bucklers. The only specific usage of the buckler outside of regular shield use is in the main gauche ability. Similarly, unlike other shields, it lacks the additional reroll, I'm guessing to make up for its ability to be used in this fashion. In order for main gauche to be activated, one has to be using parry.

Since the duelist is mostly set up for dodging, and the main advantage of being a shield for blocking is missing ( the reroll ), I would propose that the buckler serve as a parrying device much as it would have in its historical life. This will create an alternative boon for being a duelist who uses parrying as their primary defense skill and I would achieve this by giving the buckler an added re-roll on parries, just like other shields do with blocking. Maybe this is just an addendum to the main gauche ability or across the board—in general I see very few reasons with any class to prioritize parrying.

EDIT: I suddenly realized the benefit of parrying is not having to use skill points in a second skill! Derp.

[Rias]

One of the tricky things with the buckler is that every other main-gauche situation involves parrying with the Duelist's main weapon and then making an opportune strike with the off-hand weapon. If one is tying up the attack with the buckler instead, it doesn't really work to then also retaliate with the same thing the Duelist is tying up the attack with. The logical conclusion seems to be moving the retaliation to the main-hand weapon, but that would likely be too strong from a balance perspective - main-gauche is specifically supposed to be with less hard-hitting weapons.

I realize the above doesn't necessarily jive with the way off-hands were actually used - I'm assuming the "parrying dagger" was called that for a reason, and wasn't merely an off-hand shiv. If we work in off-hand parries somehow, maybe they could just function as a backup for when the main parry fails. Off-hand strike when the main parry succeeds, otherwise the off-hand has a chance to function as a second parry attempt.

The buckler concept currently fills an admittedly niche role by giving the Duelist a block roll when they're heading into a situation with attacks that can't be parried and the Duelist has more investment in shields skill than dodge. It's not the most likely scenario, but I feel it's better to give Duelists a chance to have a niche shield build/situation that works with their abilities than to not.

The buckler may also feel better if we can figure out a way to have attacks consider all defenses rather than just one while not messing too much with overall combat probabilities. Then the buckler would serve as a backup block roll if the Duelist's dodge and parry both fail or get bypassed somehow.

[Gorth]

One of the tricky things with the buckler is that every other main-gauche situation involves parrying with the Duelist's main weapon and then making an opportune strike with the off-hand weapon. If one is tying up the attack with the buckler instead, it doesn't really work to then also retaliate with the same thing the Duelist is tying up the attack with. The logical conclusion seems to be moving the retaliation to the main-hand weapon, but that would likely be too strong from a balance perspective - main-gauche is specifically supposed to be with less hard-hitting weapons.

My understanding was, in general, that the buckler could also often times be used as a sort of distraction weapon. Keep your eyes on my weapon or I'll bop you with my shield, keep your eyes on my shield or I'll stab you, type thing. I personally could imagine someone small knocking a weapon towrads there sword side with there buckler and keeping it there with there blade, to slip in and bop someone in the ribs.
But I'm not a trained fighter of any kind; though I've done a fair few martial arts and similar (yes yes, of course I did). i've never even seen the fake sword fights in Hollywood, cause blind.

I realize the above doesn't necessarily jive with the way off-hands were actually used - I'm assuming the "parrying dagger" was called that for a reason, and wasn't merely an off-hand shiv. If we work in off-hand parries somehow, maybe they could just function as a backup for when the main parry fails. Off-hand strike when the main parry succeeds, otherwise the off-hand has a chance to function as a second parry attempt.

We talked about this in Discord. Admittedly, it feels really, really good, but it might not be as powerful as we think. Parry already doesn't get as much bonus die size as Dodge or Block, gets no rerolls, and gets middling (still pretty harshly) affected by encumbrance. If perhaps, instead of a reroll on the single parry attempt, we got two with no rerolls, that might work better. I'm not really sure on how the statistics might work out for that, but I imagine if they rolled high enough to beat your first parry, it edges towards them rolling lower the second time.

The buckler concept currently fills an admittedly niche role by giving the Duelist a block roll when they're heading into a situation with attacks that can't be parried and the Duelist has more investment in shields skill than dodge. It's not the most likely scenario, but I feel it's better to give Duelists a chance to have a niche shield build/situation that works with their abilities than to not.

My suggestion has been to pump Shield Use a bit, and keep it out, but set your defense to Parry. This way, if you get attacked with a melee weapon, you're still using Main-Gauche, but non-parryable attacks still get sent to shield. Additionally, if you start to get overwhelmed or start protecting someone and want that extra defense, you could switch to full on blocking. I'm pretty proud of it, even though it isn't really unique. It would be nullified by shields adding to parry, but if we did away with Blocking intirely would we not be able to block arrows? or would we just make Bucklers not use the Shield Use skill and the other ones? In which case you'd be Dodging arrows.

The buckler may also feel better if we can figure out a way to have attacks consider all defenses rather than just one while not messing too much with overall combat probabilities. Then the buckler would serve as a backup block roll if the Duelist's dodge and parry both fail or get bypassed somehow.

I suggested similar in my Marauder Feedback Post. A system, for those classes that have a much better defense, but also have a PROCable defense ability that they would like to be used, or similar. I have no earthly idea how to balance it so that we aren't never getting hit, but i would, personally, like slower, more thought out combats anyway.

[Gorth]

I was recently reminded that we have a few weapons with parry bonuses. I don't know them all, but I really, really like the system. Mostly because it gives my parry build a way to catch up. Point is:

What if buckler gives a parry bonus? That's it. Obviously eventually swords are going to be getting parry bonuses, so I don't think it should be an insane amount, so we can't have fifteen hundred parry roll (or something huge if someone is looking back in the future and this isn't horrifying). So maybe it could be like those other abilities where it only adds like, ten or twenty percent to your parry while at one roundtime or less. Something like that. Could be neat!