Potential Fix: Rapier / Longsword / Cutlass

[Gorth]

It has come to my attention that the longsword and rapier both have the same reach. This doesn't make much sense to me, both from a realism standpoint and from a balance standpoint. My instant thought was to pull the rapier down to 3 range, but then cutlass's difference (being a class shorter but deal more damage) becomes just that it does more damage, which is silly. How do we fix this? Any ideas?

[Pendulum]

Raoiers are long in real life. They are more slender than the longsword, which is why the weight is the same. Also the rapier is substantially more manoeverable than the longsword, which might factor into reach above and beyond bare measurement in inches.

[Jilliana]

The question then becomes, what type of damage do they deal?

Longsword is hack, pierce and slash; , rapiers are pierce and slash...I believe, and I'm not sure what the third's type of damage is. Sure they have the same reach, but the difference is not only in the damage output, but the type of damage that is dealt.

Hope that makes sense?

[Pendulum]

I might mention some advantages that the longsword would have but for the fact that our game mechanics don't cover them:

1. The longsword could be effectively used with the 'half-swording' technique (delivering what we would call "crush damage"), the rapier....not so much.

2. In a rapier vs. longsword duel, the longsword could possibly break the rapier's blade if it struck it just the right way.

[Squeak]

Longsword is a hand and a half, allowing it to be used as a two handed weapon, thus increasing the damage potential in hack, slash, and piercing damage types.

Rapiers, while reportedly as long as longswords, only deal slash and piercing damage, though with the added benefit of higher Armor Chink rates.

Cutlasses, being slightly smaller than rapiers, also deal slash and piercing damage, with a similar Armor Chink rate, if memory serves.

Edited to Add: Without getting into the realism of various swords and nomenclature, and using just IG rationale as currently seen, I think they both fill their niches quiet well.

The ubiquitous longsword has a cutlasses Armor Chink on piercing damage with a slightly longer reach and the additional potential damage output to make it worthwhile, giving the weapon a decent all around use for many types of enemies (it'd be better if one could dictate the TYPE of attack, i.e. Thrust, Slash, Hack to choose the damage type). The rapier only has slash and pierce, though the piercing comes with double the Armor Chink rate. The damage types make it less useful as a "go-to" for many enemies, though, but this is made up for by class abilities that could put the higher chink to better use.

[Alicron]

I am not sure how this would translate into game mechanics but in real life the main difference between bladed weapons is reach, weight and bevel(the angle the blade edge is shaped to). All blades can essentially do the same damage to us blood balloons, doesn't matter if it is a shiv or a mighty greatsword both will cut you. But with that in mind, heavier weapons can deliver more kinetic energy which could mean the difference between a few razor slashes and being cleft in two.

Another thing to consider is that the definitions for swords can get a bit vague.

There are many different variations of longswords and rapiers. And there is a great deal of crossover of what is defined as what. For example, in some cases a bastard sword might be considered a longsword and an epee might be considered a rapier. In some weirder cases, an epee can even be taken for a long thin longsword when it is made in the cruciform style. Using this, it can sometimes be said that rapiers are longer and others that longswords are longer. Heck, I have even seen some historically shorter greatswords. So, like I said 'vagueness'.

TLDR: We can justify which sword does what until we are black and blue in the face but truth be told, this is a game. Just try to add some variety to the weapons offered with some basis in reality and lets not nit pick over minutiae.

[Pendulum]

There are many different variations of longswords and rapiers. And there is a great deal of crossover of what is defined as what. For example, in some cases a bastard sword might be considered a longsword and an epee might be considered a rapier.

You've got that right. Back more than 20 years ago in the world of Role-Playing Games, what we now call a longsword was back then called a bastard sword. What was then in RPG's called a longsword, we would now call an Arming Sword or a Knightly Sword if we had such a model. At least you can read about it on wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knightly_sword

[Karjus]

Probably useful to keep in mind two upcoming mechanics changes that have been discussed previously when comparing any weapons currently.

1) Armor chink is going to be modified. Details on that are yet to be fully disclosed, but some things that have been mentioned is another roll check potentially between the wearer's armor skill and the attack's skill along with a scale of success. This will bring overall rapier damage down much more significantly against a large swarth of foes in comparison to longswords.

2) Individual weapon parry modifiers are intended, and across the board. This might not necessarily effect longsword vs rapier, but an argument could be made for the former being better at the act than the later.

[Gorth]

The issue was risen that longsword is worse in one hand than a rapier or a cutlass (for damage, at least) but worse in two hands than a greatsword for damage. Which I think is fine. The point about maneuverability is true. I would be most interested in seeing the longsword get a parry bonus, than anything. Maybe one day.

[Pendulum]

2) Individual weapon parry modifiers are intended, and across the board. This might not necessarily effect longsword vs rapier, but an argument could be made for the former being better at the act than the later.

Nope. Rapier is going to be noticeably better at parry than longsword, at the very least in blade vs. blade comat. If we had such a manoever as riposte, the rapier would excel at the parry + riposte combo.

Our humble mechanics don't address it, but if the weight of the incoming weapon were a factor, the more substantial blade of the longsword would be better at turning away a heavier weapon, such as an incoming mace or handaxe, and less likely to break while doing so.