Having played with this for a little while now, I have some thoughts.
In the context of warriors, I think this was a good change. Warriors have the Abilities to fight on even footing with same-skilled enemies, barring areas designed for groups, and can often even punch above their skill level (particularly with Nightblades), so there's no real reason for them to be farming lower-leveled areas.
Adventurers are less combat focused, so they would struggle with this... except that they have alternate ways to make money. Namely lockpicking and theft. I think they could use more ways to make money, and maybe lockboxes need a similar treatment (fixed lockboxes seem to be providing an absurd amount of riln at present - after selling the other contents), but ultimately they are not so impacted by this change because they have other ways to make money with their Class.
As a Scholar, however, this has been somewhat punitive. We do not have abilities to fight on par with enemies, even as a Warlock which is - perhap - the most combat-focused Scholar. We generally have to punch down or else spend most of our time and earnings on treatment for injuries/fractures/sutures. This would be fine, of course, if there were other ways to make funds for Scholars. Physickers heal, of course, and can make money that way. Arcanists can sometimes sell glyphs, but this isn't really reliable income and is reliant on players being online when you play. Ultimately, this has gutted my ability to make riln on my own, making me entirely at the whim of other PCs being both around and willing to have me along.
The other I had four broken arms that needed treated throughout the day and made something like 2000 riln after expenses before giving up and pestering someone into playing bodyguard. Whereupon I made more in an hour than I made in six alone. While warriors have mentioned wanting to be hired as bodyguards, if a scholar needs a bodyguard to make money at all, how are they going to get the riln to pay for one? And what do the scholars who play during off hours do to make money? At this point, I felt more like I was robbing the warrior of income they could have gotten more efficiently alone than anything.
I suspect someone is going to mention dipping into crafting. I do not think it should be a requirement to dip outside your Class to be able to earn riln.
At this point, I grind almost exclusively in a zone that doesn't drop riln, in part because they also lack abilities that ruin my day like riln-dropping enemies often have.
In summary, I think this was a good change, but I also think it is a premature one. We need some of those Scholar tasks implemented so we can make money when there aren't groups around to join. As it is, I've given up on making money.
Loot Luck based on combat challenge
Re: Loot Luck based on combat challenge
As a question - posted in a separate post to not distract from the previous:
Is it kosher to have a higher-level warrior guard you and not attack so that you can make money in a zone that fits your skill level?
It feels a little cheese, but at the same time the Loot Luck system is making mixed-skill grouping very difficult, and my cap puts me hundreds below most of the prominent fighters I have available to group with.
Is it kosher to have a higher-level warrior guard you and not attack so that you can make money in a zone that fits your skill level?
It feels a little cheese, but at the same time the Loot Luck system is making mixed-skill grouping very difficult, and my cap puts me hundreds below most of the prominent fighters I have available to group with.
Re: Loot Luck based on combat challenge
This has been a thing for a rather long time now, and I'd like to offer an observation.
It seems that, for mobs which roll *exactly* the same as you, you get reasonable and normal amounts of riln, but a very, very low chance of finding lockboxes. To the point that I'm lucky to find ten in a week of spending an hour or two each day in Tanglewood. Yes, this is a real, actually experienced statistic. The contents are usually okay, though. it's rather disheartening to find those gems in the rough that are lockboxes in a hundred mobs, just to struggle for a day or two to find someoneto open up a hundred and thirty riln and a sock. I don't actually mind it, that much, now that I'm currently done grinding for the big personal goal the character had. It's more a curiosity than anything.
Is there perhaps some accidental comparison change between riln luck and lockbox drop luck, or am I just placeboing myself, or is it just how it's set up?
It seems that, for mobs which roll *exactly* the same as you, you get reasonable and normal amounts of riln, but a very, very low chance of finding lockboxes. To the point that I'm lucky to find ten in a week of spending an hour or two each day in Tanglewood. Yes, this is a real, actually experienced statistic. The contents are usually okay, though. it's rather disheartening to find those gems in the rough that are lockboxes in a hundred mobs, just to struggle for a day or two to find someoneto open up a hundred and thirty riln and a sock. I don't actually mind it, that much, now that I'm currently done grinding for the big personal goal the character had. It's more a curiosity than anything.
Is there perhaps some accidental comparison change between riln luck and lockbox drop luck, or am I just placeboing myself, or is it just how it's set up?
Re: Loot Luck based on combat challenge
Yeah, that's fine. The whole system is still a bit goofy.
I'll double-check it, but the thresholds for riln amount and lockbox chance should be exactly the same. Box drop chance can also be set on a per-mob basis, so you might be fighting things that are less likely to drop boxes overall.
<Rias> PUT ON PANTS
<Fellborn> NO
<Fellborn> NO
Re: Loot Luck based on combat challenge
I can confirm that the lootbox drop rates in Tanglewood have been oddly scarce the last few times my dude went there lately. I thought it was just me, honestly.
Re: Loot Luck based on combat challenge
...funny. I thought it was just my luck.
- Karjus
Speaking to you, XYZ says, "Never bother to wash it. It gets dirty again anyway."
Speaking to XYZ, you say, "I hope you don't treat your ass the same way."
Speaking to you, XYZ says, "Never bother to wash it. It gets dirty again anyway."
Speaking to XYZ, you say, "I hope you don't treat your ass the same way."
Re: Loot Luck based on combat challenge
Can't attest to Tanglewood, but the raiders that I tend to farm loot for have been particularly stingy. Maybe five boxes from them since the change?
Though with the static boxes in the area, it's not too bad.
Though with the static boxes in the area, it's not too bad.
Re: Loot Luck based on combat challenge
Hrrrrm. The latest code update for loot luck was on April 24th, 5 days after Tanglewood was released. At 700 combat skill I still get full loot luck from the toughest mob in those areas, and my lockbox drop chance shows as the default rate. I ran around in the actual Tanglewood area a bit while no one was there to make sure it wasn't some oddity between the natural spawns and my testing ones, and all the numbers look the same.
Aha, found it! A good few of the Tanglewood mobs have weirdly low drop rates set instead of using the default. The toughest Tanglewood mobs were not one of them though, they've got the default drop rate (I might actually bump that up a tad). I'll do a sweep over all lockbox mobs and check for any others who have drop rates set lower than they should be, fix them, and announce when that's done.
@Squeak if you're talking about the mobs literally called raiders, it looks like your character is a fair amount above their combat skill level so you'll have to find some closer-challenge mobs to get a better boxes and riln return.
Aha, found it! A good few of the Tanglewood mobs have weirdly low drop rates set instead of using the default. The toughest Tanglewood mobs were not one of them though, they've got the default drop rate (I might actually bump that up a tad). I'll do a sweep over all lockbox mobs and check for any others who have drop rates set lower than they should be, fix them, and announce when that's done.
@Squeak if you're talking about the mobs literally called raiders, it looks like your character is a fair amount above their combat skill level so you'll have to find some closer-challenge mobs to get a better boxes and riln return.
<Rias> PUT ON PANTS
<Fellborn> NO
<Fellborn> NO
Re: Loot Luck based on combat challenge
Okay, so this is related but brings in other elements so I'm not sure if it's the right place to post this, but I haven't read through everything so... But regardless, i'd like to offer a newer player's perspective.
First some background. My character is mostly crafting focused, but I wanted to give her some combat practice so she can eventually hunt for good pelts. Plus, as an adventurer, ranger to be specific, I thought allowing her to at least be able to pick lower difficulty locks would be a useful skill to have. So while I'm not too concerned with raking in riln while fighting, I can make things to sell for that, I would like to find lockboxes to practice on. At the moment I'm level 16, not sure if level makes any difference here, and all combat skills are at, or lower than, 100. Some significantly lower. OH, dodge is 110 but like ranged combat is only 36 as far as what it's been practiced to.
So here's my difficulty. If I go hunting with a fairly full set of armor, lacking hands and legs, the armor penalty is fairly significant. I'm working on raising armor use skill, but for now I don't really want to complete the armor set because it would just make the penalty worse. I've tried removing vambraces, but then even the vagrants can make my arms bleed, necessitating a return to town to get it fixed. However, I'm now at the point that getting boxes from vagrants is unlikely. It happened once today, but it's rare unless I switched from ranged combat, 36 practiced, to melee, 6.8 practiced.
So, in an attempt to get more boxes, I tried attacking a laborer, instead. That didn't go well at all, and I had to go back for a chest wound fix.
I guess my question is, how are newer folks, who maybe don't know where to go for static boxes assuming you can even find static ones at lower skills, meant to get good loot if their char isn't combat focused? With weight penalties from carrying a lot of food so I can survive out there and the armor penalties, fighting things that say they're an equal fight while using my preferred style of ranged combat seems pretty dangerous.
Please understand, I'm not so much complaining as just offering feedback and looking for suggestions. My thought is, if I'm struggling with this as an experienced mud player but new to cogg specifically, surely other new players run into this too. I completely understand the balance you're trying to reach and, having been involved as a mud admin before, it makes complete sense to me. I just wonder if new players got penalized a bit more than intended, at least nonwarrior ones. This also leads into, how the heck is the best way to get combat practice like ranged as a newbie? Armor use isn't too hard once you realize that you can let a few low skill creatures force you to dodge like crazy and it'll rack up skill, but ranged/melee seem harder. It's the same concept, just for a different thing.
Anyway, there's probably a lot I'm missing here, but again if I am, others probably are or will as well.
On the positive side, I love that crafting gives exp here. It makes crafting focused chars a whole lot more feasible which is wonderful! I just don't want to be the one that can't handle herself at all combat wise. Also, in case one of the suggestions is group up with someone, that's not super practical for me at least during the week. With work, I tend to do things during the week in a scattered way, taking actions in between meetings or tasks. So I've created my char to be pretty independent for that very reason.
First some background. My character is mostly crafting focused, but I wanted to give her some combat practice so she can eventually hunt for good pelts. Plus, as an adventurer, ranger to be specific, I thought allowing her to at least be able to pick lower difficulty locks would be a useful skill to have. So while I'm not too concerned with raking in riln while fighting, I can make things to sell for that, I would like to find lockboxes to practice on. At the moment I'm level 16, not sure if level makes any difference here, and all combat skills are at, or lower than, 100. Some significantly lower. OH, dodge is 110 but like ranged combat is only 36 as far as what it's been practiced to.
So here's my difficulty. If I go hunting with a fairly full set of armor, lacking hands and legs, the armor penalty is fairly significant. I'm working on raising armor use skill, but for now I don't really want to complete the armor set because it would just make the penalty worse. I've tried removing vambraces, but then even the vagrants can make my arms bleed, necessitating a return to town to get it fixed. However, I'm now at the point that getting boxes from vagrants is unlikely. It happened once today, but it's rare unless I switched from ranged combat, 36 practiced, to melee, 6.8 practiced.
So, in an attempt to get more boxes, I tried attacking a laborer, instead. That didn't go well at all, and I had to go back for a chest wound fix.
I guess my question is, how are newer folks, who maybe don't know where to go for static boxes assuming you can even find static ones at lower skills, meant to get good loot if their char isn't combat focused? With weight penalties from carrying a lot of food so I can survive out there and the armor penalties, fighting things that say they're an equal fight while using my preferred style of ranged combat seems pretty dangerous.
Please understand, I'm not so much complaining as just offering feedback and looking for suggestions. My thought is, if I'm struggling with this as an experienced mud player but new to cogg specifically, surely other new players run into this too. I completely understand the balance you're trying to reach and, having been involved as a mud admin before, it makes complete sense to me. I just wonder if new players got penalized a bit more than intended, at least nonwarrior ones. This also leads into, how the heck is the best way to get combat practice like ranged as a newbie? Armor use isn't too hard once you realize that you can let a few low skill creatures force you to dodge like crazy and it'll rack up skill, but ranged/melee seem harder. It's the same concept, just for a different thing.
Anyway, there's probably a lot I'm missing here, but again if I am, others probably are or will as well.
On the positive side, I love that crafting gives exp here. It makes crafting focused chars a whole lot more feasible which is wonderful! I just don't want to be the one that can't handle herself at all combat wise. Also, in case one of the suggestions is group up with someone, that's not super practical for me at least during the week. With work, I tend to do things during the week in a scattered way, taking actions in between meetings or tasks. So I've created my char to be pretty independent for that very reason.