Weapons and their edges

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debaquila96
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Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2022 10:10 am

Weapons and their edges

Post by debaquila96 »

Hello everyone,
It's been quite a while since the feature that causes weapons to become duller over time was implemented.
I have played with many characters, I have had the opportunity to experience the combat very often, and I have come to a conclusion, which I will include in this feedback.
But before we start…
I would like to start with a premise: it is very clear that in this game an interaction between players is required, or rather recommended, so that if a person does not know how to do something, he can turn to someone else who has experience.
However, weapons lose their sharpness after even one fight if you fight armored mobs.
I will give you an example.
My duelist was fighting nethrim today, and she was using an iron rapier and iron stiletto.
Her rapier lost sharpness almost after 10 minutes, so she wasn't able to chink through the Bald Hills Guardian's armor.
If you think about it, even in reality you don't sharpen a knife you use every 10 minutes every day, the knife stays sharp for a little longer.
Likewise, in my opinion any sword that is sharpened by an expert blacksmith should stay sharp for two, three days of intense combat, no less.
This favors two things, fundamentally:
1. The continuous interaction between players, which is what this game has, shall we say, as a fundamental goal, without making people wait for centuries for a good blacksmith.
2. Fighters have the ability to make much more accurate shots without always having to wait on a person with metalworking experience.
I'd like to know what you think about it.
Gorth
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Location: Michigan

Re: Weapons and their edges

Post by Gorth »

This has been posted about several times with no response, but for what it's worth, I agree. Keen-edge does flee fast, for sure. It could stand with a bit of a lessening.

Something to note is you don't need keen-edge to Chink. Also, Keen-edge isn't the end of the world. sure it looks cool, and it adds %20 DF to your weapon, but %20 is not a lot unless you have a lot of stacking bonuses. This isn't to say you shouldn't worry about getting it, I'm just saying it isn't the end of the world.

Also tip. if you're able, aiming for a non-armored body part will not do any damage to the weapon or it's keen-edge.
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debaquila96
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Re: Weapons and their edges

Post by debaquila96 »

Yes it is absolutely true, I found out that with no edge it doesn't impact the same damage.


For a heavily armored character, like a Dreadnought for example, the this isn't that much of a problem because they can also use polehammers, warmauls, etc. But for a Duelist, who still has the ability to kill mobs that are slightly more powerful, aiming for the chest that's usually covered in armor is your best bet to get out alive.
I will do my best to point to this in my next chat or lounge conversation to get it considered.
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Rias
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Re: Weapons and their edges

Post by Rias »

I like the idea of greater-skilled smiths imparting a longer-lasting edge. On the other hand, keep in mind that the keen edge bonus should be considered just that: a bonus, and not a given. If a blade loses the keen edge bonus it is still perfectly serviceable.

In addition to thinking of a way to make it easier to re-apply keen edges at the grinder (I've got one in mind I'm entertaining pretty heavily at the moment), I think it might also be a good idea to reduce the edge loss rate after it's gone from keen-edged to normal. Giving it more time before going from "normal-edged" to dull seems reasonable. Just remember that the keen edge stage should absolutely be considered a temporary nicety that's handy when available, but not something that should be considered a requirement for baseline viability. It's giving edged weapons the ability to exceed the damage potential of non-edged weapons, not bringing them on par with such. As a balancing factor, they require the sharpening maintenance effort.
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debaquila96
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Re: Weapons and their edges

Post by debaquila96 »

You say,
I like the idea of greater-skilled smiths imparting a longer-lasting edge. On the other hand, keep in mind that the keen edge bonus should be considered just that: a bonus, and not a given. If a blade loses the keen edge bonus it is still perfectly serviceable.
******
I think yes, but such edge should last for longer in my opinion, because even if you think in the reality, you shouldn't lose its effect after fighting an armored foe 10 minutes. You should at least be able to use your weapon 24 hours.
By this way...
(a) You'll always see people interacting with each other, cause 24 hours aren't that much;
and (b) you'll give people the possibility to have that slightly higher damage for some more time, and this helps.
******
You continue:
addition to thinking of a way to make it easier to re-apply keen edges at the grinder (I've got one in mind I'm entertaining pretty heavily at the moment), I think it might also be a good idea to reduce the edge loss rate after it's gone from keen-edged to normal. Giving it more time before going from "normal-edged" to dull seems reasonable. Just remember that the keen edge stage should absolutely be considered a temporary nicety that's handy when available, but not something that should be considered a requirement for baseline viability. It's giving edged weapons the ability to exceed the damage potential of non-edged weapons, not bringing them on par with such. As a balancing factor, they require the sharpening maintenance effort.

******
Yes, this is also a great idea.
Squeak
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Re: Weapons and their edges

Post by Squeak »

Hijacking this for random musings:

Why is it necessary to anneal edged tools and weapons before resharpening them?

I'm not metallurgical ye olde blacksmith, but I have done my fair share of sharpening tools on a wide variety of utensils, including what I imagine we would use in COGG - a pedal operated wheel whetstone. In all the years of doing this, I have never needed to anneal a blade to sharpen it. The handful of times I did, it was because the axe was so damaged it needed to have a primary bevel re-ground and then sharpened.

I submit, then, that the sharpening process (to reapply a keen-edge) is just as simple as having water on hand and doing a bit of grinding on the stone. However, if the weapon or tool has needed heavy repairs, i.e. requiring additional materials, it should automatically lose the keen edge bonus and need to be annealed and re-ground into proper shape after the repairs are completed. And re-tempered, of course.
Gorth
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Re: Weapons and their edges

Post by Gorth »

I have less experience than you, but my reading suggests that a sword and an axeblade are both exceptionally different, both in technique and makeup. Truth be told, I think air-cooling should just be made a bit faster and the times would be fine. I don't lose keen-edge that fast, and I fight a good deal, and also..I just don't get my weapons resharpened for a while afterword. only when people offer, because it does take a little time.

Heft doesn't go away, and niether does metal sharpness. Swords already do more damage on average than other things, or at least they did before heft got added. Keen-edge is pretty good, but it doesn't change the world, and I'm glad for that. We need less damage than more, I think.
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Volinn
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Re: Weapons and their edges

Post by Volinn »

The current sharpening process is pretty jarring realistically and far too time consuming - I think the current skill barrier to produce keen edges is already a solid enough deterrent without making it also so time-intensive as far as game balance-related stuff is concerned. Really like these suggestions!
tulpa
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Re: Weapons and their edges

Post by tulpa »

viewtopic.php?p=6909#p6909

We have duplicate threads on this, thought I'd link the other one to avoid re-treading the same ground.
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