Random Musing on Fishing

[Guillaumo]

Find your local Shadgardian farmer and shake them down for potatoes and corn! We're having a seafood boil!

While by previous post focused on Fresh Water trapping, this post is focused on Saltwater Trapping. The idea here is for a woven style lobster pot which could be employed along the coastline in order to watch a variety of crustaceans. Bait the trap with meat and cast it out into the ocean to attract crabs, lobsters, shrimp, or maybe even a pissed off Coastal Crawler!

I'm thinking, this trap is larger than a trotline and harder to construct. Due to its volume, perhaps it can also be set to longer period of time and collect a larger volume of animals.

Requirements: Bushcraft 100, Fishing 300

Recipe:
Rope x 1
Straight Medium Branch x 12? idk a handful at least.
Straight Short Branch x 4
Cordage x 2
Medium Rock x4


[An image titled: The New Emberlight Crustacean Cage. The Image depicts a roughly rectangular contraption made of sticks. The Bottom is flat, while short branches attached perpendicular to the structure make a bowed and spacious interior. The front of the contraption has two notable features: First the branches on the front are woven to form a funnel leading to the interior and lastly a large rope is attached to the structure to allow for its retrieval from the water. The image vaguely suggests the structure is weighted down with rocks.]

Along with new seafood, can potentially come new cooking recipes! Add in a rockfish and some muscles and you could whip up a hearty bouillabaisse. Or don't think the stuck up members of the Dominion wouldn't literally die for a chilled Shrimp Cocktail!

[Guillaumo]

Just another random thought.

If I understand it correctly, Spearfishing will always be the most idealistic approach to fishing in the current system for anybody who can get their melee over 400, due to the averaging of the two skills together into the end roll. As a Scholar, this places me at a disadvantage to fishing over all Adventurers and Warriors.
e.g.
Warrior:
Max Angling Roll: 500
Max Spearfishing Roll: 650 (715 Intuition Bonused)

Advy:
Max Angling Roll: 600
Max Spearfishing Roll: Between 600-650 (660-715) based on class

Scholar
Max Angling Roll: 500
Max Spearfishing Roll: 500 (550 Intuition bonused)

As you can see, there are some very large gaps between the rolls which are due to Class for a General Skill which I, personally, don't think should be the case.

I am also not highlighting this so much to be a "Spearfishing should be nerfed" post, but more of a, "How do we incentive angling over spearfishing?"

I come back to my previous post about quality of equipment, if that can be a thing. Encourage anglers to obtain better rods, better lines, better hooks, all in an effort to be better.

Should we have Angling specific abilities? Should there be an ability which can add rerolls onto your offense (on top of morale)? An ability which can cause your catch to suffer a negative reroll due to your skill showing? Things to make Angling more a demonstration of talent vs "I thrust pointy thing into water".

If you think these ideas are bad, blame Bucket. They're its ideas.

[Lexx416]

Just another random thought.

If I understand it correctly, Spearfishing will always be the most idealistic approach to fishing in the current system for anybody who can get their melee over 400, due to the averaging of the two skills together into the end roll. As a Scholar, this places me at a disadvantage to fishing over all Adventurers and Warriors.
e.g.
Warrior:
Max Angling Roll: 500
Max Spearfishing Roll: 650 (715 Intuition Bonused)

Advy:
Max Angling Roll: 600
Max Spearfishing Roll: Between 600-650 (660-715) based on class

Scholar
Max Angling Roll: 500
Max Spearfishing Roll: 500 (550 Intuition bonused)

As you can see, there are some very large gaps between the rolls which are due to Class for a General Skill which I, personally, don't think should be the case.

I am also not highlighting this so much to be a "Spearfishing should be nerfed" post, but more of a, "How do we incentive angling over spearfishing?"

I come back to my previous post about quality of equipment, if that can be a thing. Encourage anglers to obtain better rods, better lines, better hooks, all in an effort to be better.

Should we have Angling specific abilities? Should there be an ability which can add rerolls onto your offense (on top of morale)? An ability which can cause your catch to suffer a negative reroll due to your skill showing? Things to make Angling more a demonstration of talent vs "I thrust pointy thing into water".

If you think these ideas are bad, blame Bucket. They're its ideas.

While I agree that angling could use something to incentivize it, I imagine that the adventurers guild is intended to have a higher potential Angling roll, even if it's a "general" skill - that's why their guild cap is set to 500, instead of 400. I'm pretty sure most, if not all, of the General Skills have guild and class caps that go above the 400 mark, some by a much wider margin.

[Rias]

I agree that angling needs some particular love when it comes to fishing. I feel like spearfishing should be the less-involved version that the people who are already good at poking things with sticks can get in on, while angling (and other fishing-related practices that may be added) is more complex and involved and should have increased opportunities. There's already the fact that many fishing spots can only be angled and not spearfished. I've considered making spearfished fish non-eligible for the fishing record boards as well, or at least giving them their own separate boards. I'm pretty sure the all-time records have been virtually always held by spearfishers over anglers, and that feels wrong.

I'd also love to incorporate more "moves" into fishing beyond just PULLing over and over. Fishing is the activity that is closest to duplicating the combat-like experience in a non-combat activity, and it'd be awesome to build on that and make it capture that same kind of feeling for those who want it but aren't interested in combat. The problem is that I know nothing about fishing personally, so keep the suggestions coming as I otherwise have hardly anything to go off of for ideas and inspiration. Thank you for all the effort you put into your ideas and suggestions!

[Rias]

So I guess to be more specific in a request to people interested in developing the angling experience more: Let's say we involve Balance or some fishing-specific equivalent, and potentially other things with the angling experience. What are some "moves" we could incorporate to more or less equate to feint, circle, truestrike, etc. to make it feel more dynamic and exciting and less mindless? Then we can have some fish with "moves" of their own that need to be countered with the right actions. Different zones with different fish of varying movesets and difficulties, and boom, we've got the combat-like experience and progression method for a non-combat activity. Which I think would be a lot of fun, and judging by how it seems like 90% of characters (or more?) seem to be interested in combat as a side activity at the very least, I imagine many others would enjoy having a non-combat activity to experience that same sort of feeling with as well.

I like the idea of applying the timing-based thing from combat to fishing as well, so it's not just mashing/scripting "pull" as quickly as possible.

At its simplest to conceptualize and implement, I could use specific ideas for:

- Angler move to gain Fishing Balance.
- Angler move to spend Fishing Balance on for some rerolls on reeling a fish in.
- Angler move to mess up the fish's Fishing Balance and give it negative rerolls at resisting being reeled in.
- Quicktime opportunity to use some kind of instant Angler move to reel the fish in more.
- Some kind of events or "moves" the fish does where attempting to reel it in becomes a BAD thing until that event/move is over. Make anglers pay attention! Reduces how reeled in the fish is and puts extra strain on the line, maybe? A chance for the fish to outright escape if the angler tries to reel it during this window?

Also useful to think about:

- What exactly do quality poles/hooks do? Fishing rerolls?
- Quality fishing line should probably just not break as quickly, right?
- Would it make sense to have a lower roundtime per pull with a special type of reel that requires a specialist to make and needs to be repaired/replaced every so often?
- I know nothing about lures except that they're a thing, so it would be neat to know what types could be used and what mechanical effects they should have (have been mentioned in previous fishing suggestions)
- Different types of bait seem like they should attract different types of fish. Some might increase bite rates, others attract unique fish types that don't go for the standard earthworm?

[Dennis]

I know nothing about angling, but the idea of a fishing fighting minigame sounds like fun.

- Angler move to gain Fishing Balance.
One idea for an angler move to gain Fishing Balance could be a Stance or roundtime based "Patience" move, where the player takes their time reeling in the line, using a steady and measured pace. This move could increase the player's Fishing Balance, the resource used for making fishing maneuvers.

- Angler move to spend Balance on for some rerolls on reeling a fish in.

A possible angler move to spend Balance on for rerolls when reeling in a fish could be called "Reel Strike." This move allows the player to spend their accumulated Balance to make a powerful, timed reel strike that gives them a reroll on reeling in the fish. This move could be a more powerful version of the standard "pull" move that requires a certain amount of Balance to use.

- Angler move to mess up the fish's Balance and give it negative rerolls at resisting being reeled in.
A possible angler move to disrupt a fish's balance and give it negative rerolls when resisting being reeled in could be called "Line Jerk". This move would involve a quick, sudden tug on the line, which would disrupt the fish's balance and make it more difficult for it to resist being reeled in. This move could cost a certain amount of Balance and would have a chance to work only if it's used at the right moment, like when the fish is tired or weak, otherwise it could cause the fish to escape or break the line. There could be a quicktime prompt to do it that isn't bound by roundtime.

- Quicktime opportunity to use some kind of instant Angler move to reel the fish in more.
A quicktime opportunity to use a powerful instant angler move to reel in a fish more quickly could be called "Hooked!" This move would be triggered by a quicktime event, where the player must perform a specific action at the right moment to activate it. Once activated, the "Hooked!" move would allow the player to quickly and efficiently reel in the fish, increasing their chances of catching it. This move could also have a cost in terms of Balance and could have a chance to fail if not well-timed.

- Some kind of events or "moves" the fish does where attempting to reel it in becomes a BAD thing until that event/move is over. Make anglers pay attention! Reduces how reeled in the fish is and puts extra strain on the line, maybe? A chance for the fish to outright escape if the angler tries to reel it during this window?
One idea for events or "moves" that the fish can perform that would make attempting to reel it in a bad idea until the event/move is over is a status effect called "Fight Back." This has the fish putting up a strong resistance, making it difficult for the character to reel it in. The character would have to wait for the fish to tire before trying to reel it in again. This move could be indicated by visual cues, such as the fish jumping out of the water or the line becoming taut. Attempting to use an ability or to REEL in the fish during this window could strongly damage the durability of your rod, putting extra strain on the line, or even give the fish a chance to escape. This would make anglers pay attention and make strategic decisions about when to reel in the fish.

You can put in a visual representation of the fish's balance during the fight. For example, when the fish swims away quickly or jumps out of the water, it could be trying to increase its balance meter versus the player's fishing skill. Additionally, the meter could increase over time to a standard amount for larger higher value fish as the fish is engaged in the battle to resist being reeled in. The fish could use its balance to execute periods of Fighting Back with a cooldown, or to inflict damage to the player's line, or to reduce fishing progress which makes it more difficult to reel in and would have a better chance of escaping.

The fish could also have an energy drain that as it gets lower guarantees success of victory much like winning by bleeding.

[Guillaumo]

I could use specific ideas for:

- Angler move to gain Fishing Balance.
- Angler move to spend Fishing Balance on for some rerolls on reeling a fish in.
- Angler move to mess up the fish's Fishing Balance and give it negative rerolls at resisting being reeled in.
- Quicktime opportunity to use some kind of instant Angler move to reel the fish in more.
- Some kind of events or "moves" the fish does where attempting to reel it in becomes a BAD thing until that event/move is over. Make anglers pay attention! Reduces how reeled in the fish is and puts extra strain on the line, maybe? A chance for the fish to outright escape if the angler tries to reel it during this window?

Vae and I have had an opportunity to discuss this, so I want to start by thanking him for his contributions.

Angling should be drastically slowed down.
Line Snapping should not occur over time, but as the result of bad PULLs
Line and Bait should be removable from the Rod

Idea: The Angler will be given 5 attempts during the cast to attract a fish faster.
PULL will reel in 20% of the distance and provide a chance for a Bite.
PULL ALL will reel the line in completely and end the fishing attempt.
After the 5th PULL, the bait will be retrieved from the water and will need to be re-cast with the FISH command.

Anglers can learn techniques which when used can provide a larger chance to generate a Bite.

Active Ability: Reel Techniques: The Angler is taught a series of techniques for retrieving their lines to produce a variety of desired effects.
OOC Description (Grants a series of moves which have an increased chance for a fish to bite, which can be further improved by environment)

PULL JIG - You quickly jerk your bait up and down in the water a number of times. More effective in coastal environments
PULL POP - You give the bait a sharp jerk, causing it to break the surface in a series of ripples. More effective in lake environments.
PULL ZIG - waving the top of your rod from side-to-side, you cause your bait to zigzag across the surface. More effective in river environments
PULL SNAKE - By manipulating the fishing rod with a quick flick, you can relocate your cast line to a more lucrative spot. Skilled anglers may also feed more line into the cast, slightly replenishing the amount of line in the water. (OOC: provides a small chance to add another PULL count, keeping the line in the water longer to increase bite chances.)

These would likely all be one ABILITY with either different effects for thematics, or, they could be applied to various water types. The effect would be a significant increase in the change for a Bite.

Once you have a Bite, a PULL will be used to set the hook.

Once the hook is set, that is when the Mini Game starts.

Fishing, in real life, is largely just a battle of opposites while you're trying to tire the fish out.

The game can take one of the following Commands:
PULL [Direction] [Power]
RELEASE
LAND

Directions are:
LEFT
RIGHT

Powers are:
Hard
Soft

If you hook a Brown Trout and it takes off Aggressively to the Right the correct play would be PULL LEFT SOFT. PULL LEFT HARD risks breaking the line due to stress. Any other play would be considered advantageous to the fish and cost you Fishing Balance if you lose your roll.

If you hook a Brown Trout and it pulls straight away from you, the correct play would be RELEASE, so let out line to remove stress from the line. Any PULL would place stress on the line and risk snapping the line and be considered advantageous to the fish and cost you Fishing Balance if you lose your roll.

The Brown Trout can also perform two other actions which create an OPPORTUNITY for the angler. The fish can err and swim toward the shore, or, the fish can swim up and break the surface. Both of these actions create an OPPORTUNITY for the angler to use an Ability.

Active Ability: Aggressive Reel: Taking advantage of an Opportunity, the Angler throws their rod backward and reels aggressively, drawing the fish closer to the shore.
OOC Description: (Adds significantly to the Angler’s Fishing Balance, making it easier to land their catch)

Once the Angler obtains 25 Fishing Balance, they can LAND the fish.

Passive Ability: Angler’s Eye: When casting your fishing rod, you have a chance to identify the holes, gullies, rocks, and overhangs where larger fish tend to populate.
OOC Description: (Reduces (but does not eliminate) the chances of pulling smaller sized fish when angling.)

[nobody]

I would love to throw in a chance for the fish to swim into or behind an enclosure. Pulling then might snap the line or instead bring back something worthless (an old boot, a large rock, etc).

[Gorth]

The above proposed minigame for fishing sounds like something that I would unironically spend literal hours doing. That's all I'm saying. It's been seven years since I've gone fishing in real life, and I was sort of young then so did not appreciate it. Reading this now makes me want to give it another go.