On Puzzles

[Fellborn]

So with a certain exploration completed by a large chunk of the population, I'm interested in hearing feedback regarding the puzzle element in particular.

I wanted to make something that required exploring the area, with at least some hint on where to go to look. I did want to avoid guess the verb, and I'll admit from watching... it might not quite have worked there.

Thoughts fom those who tried to figure it out would be great, as I'd like to have more than just "search here" to get to the hidden thing. Make it harder? Easier? Etc.

Please avoid specific spoilers, and if you'd prefer to discuss in private drop me a discord message.

[Gorth]

I wasn't among the group that actually originally poked around to find the thinggy, but I've taken a heavy (passing) interest as time has gone on and details have been found. The best thing I can say is that the answer is something that you could definitely unravel given enough time with the clues, and it's hard to make a puzzle in a text game that isn't Guess the Verb. Or, i nthis case, Guess the Verb+Noun. Or Verb+Adjective/Noun. alright, enough from me. I think you did a good job with this one.

[jerc]

I was in one of the groups that figured it out independently, so I can give some of that perspective. I loved the riddle and think it did its job pretty effectively, but the exact mechanism was still a guessing game, or in our case sheer luck. Unless there was another clue that we overlooked.

In my experience, the most effective MUD puzzles are ones where the actions you can take are obvious, but maybe the interactions among the set pieces aren't, or require careful looking/examining. Once the manipulables are found, the mechanism of action should either be glaringly obvious (it's a button - you push it, it's a lever - you pull it, etc.), or have a "Hmm, maybe you could PUT something there..." type of description.

Some examples of good/bad puzzles I've seen:

• Bad: there's a skeleton in a dungeon in shackles. You have to PULL ARM SHACKLES to open a secret door. No indication that they're pullable, or that any action at all is possible with them. Wrong actions give you the generic What? result. Leg shackles drop you into a spike pit.

• Good: Not a MUD puzzle, but would fit well: Skyrim's overdone "match the turny statues to the symbols" puzzle. Other variants of the "abstract logic puzzle in the room" are things like "Lights Out, Sokoban, etc. They're kinda "cheating" in that they can be put just about anywhere and don't need to be super thematic.

• Bad: There's mist on the ground. You have to bring a fan, and FAN MIST to reveal things. Neither the fan nor the most gives any indication that this is possible. Also the mist tried to kill you in gruesome ways.

• Good: you find a wheel. You turn it and hear grating from an adjacent room. You go there, and see that exits have changed. Some doors open, others closed. There are more wheels and levers scattered around that open/close other doors in the complex. You have to find the correct combination of lever/wheel positions to advance.

• Good: you look at an NPC. He's wearing a button. It says "ask me about <redacted> lessons!" You ask, and lessons are scheduled, which opens a door in the shop at a specific time that he tells you.

• Good/bad: You swim into a cave. There's a long shaft above you. Every couple of minutes, the water level changes slightly. You have to wait until high tide to float up to the top. Great if you can puzzle out the tides and dive/swim straight to the top. Annoying if you have to just bob in the water the entire time that the tide is rising.

[Delphine]

I've sent along some private thoughts as my one real grumble was with how the clue was written and there would be no way to express that without spoiling something for others.

Overall, I enjoyed the experience - from initial discovery to headdesking because I knew I was overthinking it as I am often wont to do to that moment I finally got it and sent my very cranky think (which I hope gave you a good chuckle because I meant it affectionately) before dashing off to start organizing people to get up in there and see what was what. I love that it was something that could have been discovered accidentally as it seems a few groups did (man, I bet that was an adrenaline rush!) and I recognize that part of what took me so long on cracking it was that I was working independently (only because I figured it would take me a couple of hours to do and I didn't want to make someone else suffer through that with me.)

I also loved the exploration part which came after the puzzle solving. Very cool and very much a squee moment for me.

For future puzzles, I would honestly love ones that would require a group to get it. Like maybe multiple things that need to be triggered in separate places within a certain time frame using timers. Or this switch here needs a sorcerer to trigger it while this one here needs a druid. Things like that. Honestly, just any content that encourages people to branch out and involve others beyond the usual people they play with would make me very happy.

[jerc]

I've sent along some private thoughts as my one real grumble was with how the clue was written and there would be no way to express that without spoiling something for others.

I hear this one. And no way to progress with a group without showing everyone exactly how it's done. A way to mask the solution in such a way as to maybe give *some* hint, but not the whole thing would be neat. Something like "Character fiddles with a statue for a moment, and suddenly a door opens!" when you actually have to do "press button in left nostril of bust of Black."

For future puzzles, I would honestly love ones that would require a group to get it. Like maybe multiple things that need to be triggered in separate places within a certain time frame using timers. Or this switch here needs a sorcerer to trigger it while this one here needs a druid.

Oooh, this! That's something that I forgot. Ironically, it was a follow-up to one of my "Bad" examples, but one of my favorites involved a series rooms with doors that opened and closed in "airlock" fashion based on some switches in a separate room. So one person manipulated the switches to open/close the doors in the right order for someone else to go through. Lots of shouting involved And then the next part was a game of "keep your buddy alive while a cursed statue sucks the life out of them," which required a skilled healer.