Guild Points brainstorm requested

General discussion of Guilds that doesn't fit into the other forums.
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Irylia
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Irylia » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:21 am

I agree with proving yourself within an organization, showing loyalty and commitment, before they teach you their more advanced skills. Even in the military (to use Navi's example) I'm sure there are degrees of training and clearance levels. Just because you're in doesn't mean you get access to everything all at once. But as you advance or move into specialized groups, then you gain more privileges, training, and knowledge. Having the skill to do something doesn't mean you've earned the right to learn how to do it just by signing up.

More on-topic:
I like the idea of guild rank insignia or some other badge you can wear.
Maybe guilds have certain haircut styles, jewelry, or other adornments (along the lines of cosmetics).
Maybe repairs are covered or discounted based on rank since you pay dues which (presumably) help keep craftsmen staffed. A discount could be something like - pay x in riln and y in GP.
Using GP to "buy" better tasks seems like an interesting idea. Maybe more rewarding or prestigious tasks are reserved for those with the points to unlock them.
An option could be for certain branding or custom strings for items as well. Maybe you get your guild's symbol added to clothes, armor, weapons, or other items.
Maybe you can use GP to buy dyes specific to your guild's preferred colors.
For warriors - maybe you can get some kind of fancy caparison for your horse.
For crafters - maybe you can buy custom string options for recipes.
For scholars - fancier books to take notes in.
If you're still wanting to maintain riln sinks - maybe GP is used to access shops or areas, and then you still spend riln once inside.

By the way... Rias, are you concerned about people buying things for others in COGG? Should things purchased or accessed with GP be restricted to the person purchasing/accessing them?

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Rias
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Rias » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:40 am

Good list of suggestions.
Irylia wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:21 amare you concerned about people buying things for others in COGG? Should things purchased or accessed with GP be restricted to the person purchasing/accessing them?
For guild-specific or other restricted-access purchases: A little, yeah. We could say wearable stuff is tailored specifically to the buyer and doesn't fit anyone else, and held tools/gear could also be considered made specifically for the buyer and so others receive some kind of penalty or something for using items that aren't balanced right for them, or something like that. It might be kind of a believability stretch, but I think it'd work better than doing something like "soulbound" where others can't even hold the items for some blatantly OOC reason. I haven't though about it overly much, so there might be some other/better ideas out there on the subject.

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Talyn
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Talyn » Sun May 08, 2022 5:26 pm

Hello! I'm adding to this post to bring its attention back to others for discussion seeing how some newer player ask questions about guild points/rank. It got me thinking about such and what would be cool to play around with. I really like the ideas of having some guild related items that are only obtain via ranks and points. So, character from a respectable guild can get these points by various actions. Scholars would obtain their guild points by study points, library tasks such as copy documents, and possibly shelving books. Adventurers could gather points possibly by locksmithing, scavenging, storytelling/exploring (Honestly I'm at a loss for Adventurers. Open to suggestions). Lastly, warriors which could get points by guarding others or possibly successfully killing things, I understand that this is very basic for warriors and Warriors are more than murder machines, but it's all I could think of until they get some tasks if any. With that said since guarding and attacking is so easy to do and could just have a warrior take people into a hunting zone, I feel that a warrior should gain less guild points by these actions over the other guilds. Again, only a suggestion. (This is also a very basic idea to get guild points around, perhaps more extensive stuff could be added.)

Now, with these ideas on how to get guild points what would be some things to spend them on. I think it would be interesting to have guild points be used both to increase your guild rank and used for guild only items as stated previously like guild insignias.

Without taking away from tailors being what makes things, I think it would be fun if a guild rank could unlock recipes for certain professions. So, you reach rank 2 within your respected guild and for 500 guild points you could purchase a recipe of Stormholdt Tabard or maybe a cloak, or perhaps leatherworker could learn Ridgeleather kite shield with Mongoose emblem. These things don't add anything beneficial to a character in terms of being better or worse than other items but adds a more unique feel to being apart of their guild. Scholars might be able to obtain scroll cases or another journal with the library's emblem on the cover. Adventurers could possibly get cooking recipes like jerky, or travel rations.

Another idea is instead of recipes is perhaps have an item much like a label that is of the respected guild's insignia that a character can attached to an item. Insignia "Stormholdt's Mongoose" with it and respected item chest armor, shirt, jacket, cloak, or shield in your other hand you could attach it.

I also think a few other items thrown in would be awesome but as stated, might pull away from players making things so I'm having a hard time thinking of anything extra other than maybe recipes that act more as a certain guild skin instead of just selling an item. However, it could also act as a fun riln sink location as well. Fancy inks for scholars, adventuring supplies for adventurers (possibly new ropes or such), and so on. I know one of my favorite items in game is the fancy heater shield that can be found and I think having more items with guild stuff on them would be great for those who want to show their pride with said guild.
I'm Not Accepting Surrenders At This Time. I Want You To Know Failure, Utter Defeat, And That It Is I Who Delivers It Crashing Down Upon You.
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Marcuson
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Marcuson » Sun May 08, 2022 6:34 pm

This may not be a tenable suggestion, but I'd prefer guild advancement to be done with event-only tasks.

Here's how I envision it working: when a PC has been in the guild long enough and has gotten enough points to be noticed by the guild, there will be a special task that they can accept. Accepting this task will notify an event GM, who will set up the task and, speaking through the guild (in person or in letters, what-have-you), inform the PC about it. The stakes for success or failure will be higher than usual tasks, with the PC evaluated by the guild on their performance. And, this way, PCs can build their relationship with the guild in a slower and more organic way.

Players who prefer automated tasks could still have their characters take those and get guild points for completing them, and they can spend those guild points on neat guild-related things. But I think it might be more interesting if advancement were based on roleplay. It would make actual, official acknowledgement from the guild feel that much more special.

One problem with this suggestion is that the event-only tasks would require more attention from event GMs to manage, but it wouldn't be very often -- maybe PCs can only try to advance every six months or something like that, and only after they meet certain criteria. Anyway, I'm just spitballing.

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Lexx416
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Lexx416 » Sun May 08, 2022 6:51 pm

I actually think we should totally strip out "guild rank" for the game for PCs. Making a kind of IC "This person is socially superior" number for the guilds seem like it can be problematic, and having a hierarchical structure for purely vocational organizations outside of "This/These NPCs lead it, this/these NPCs are various taskmasters and trainers" seems unnecessary.

I'm also not a fan of people slowly accruing guild points/merit points based off of automated actions. I do think we should retain guild points/merit points as an abstract currency for special things (whether they be abilities, or items, or other perks), but that they should be tied to tasks (and maybe as rewards that can be given out in the rare instance that we do have a Guild-led event being run by GMs).

We already know that it doesn't matter how little amount of progression or a resource you award for automated actions (see: crafting, studying, picking locks, guarding people), people will take the time to just automate that process client-side and slowly accrue those points with as little risk as possible.

So, tie to them entirely to tasks. That, at least, can be gated behind timers, and has more of an IC feel or reasoning behind it. The idea that my berserker can just go out with a buddy and murder a million skeletons that are vaguely threatening to him and say "ok, give me the Cool Warrior Special MacGuffin" feels kind of weird to me. Whereas doing tasks for your guild actually means there's some narrative reason beyond "cool Special Thing" to go out and kill a bunch of vaguely threatening skeletons.
"You hear the Woses, the Wild Men of the Woods... Remnants of an older time they be, living few and secretly, wild and wary as beasts."

notgreg
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by notgreg » Sun May 08, 2022 9:55 pm

I don't know if it's really necessary for Guild Points to even be a thing, but if they are I'd rather not see them be one more reason for people to go grind out tasks instead of roleplaying.

This is sort of a tangent (the way nearly everything I say is sort of a tangent) but with the playerbase eventually set to split in half, I think we need to encourage interaction rather than adding things to grind out solo.

It might be cool if Guild Points were tied to group-based tasks that popped up from task givers very very infrequently. Maybe a scholar would have to translate a document while grouped with other scholars, or an adventurer would have to follow a very vague treasure map to a terribly difficult locked chest while grouped with other adventurers... Or a warrior leads a party against an unusually dangerous foe? Something that becomes like a mini event because mechanically you can't do it alone. That way it makes sense to gain standing with your guild and also you have to talk to people.

I still have no idea what we would use them for, other than bragging rights on a leader board. Although maybe that's all it needs to be - get to 5 and your name's on a plaque with a bunch of other people, get to 10 and maybe there's an oil painting of you in the Library, get to 20 and a statue is erected somewhere.

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Lexx416
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Lexx416 » Mon May 09, 2022 8:55 am

notgreg wrote: Sun May 08, 2022 9:55 pm I don't know if it's really necessary for Guild Points to even be a thing, but if they are I'd rather not see them be one more reason for people to go grind out tasks instead of roleplaying.

This is sort of a tangent (the way nearly everything I say is sort of a tangent) but with the playerbase eventually set to split in half, I think we need to encourage interaction rather than adding things to grind out solo.

It might be cool if Guild Points were tied to group-based tasks that popped up from task givers very very infrequently. Maybe a scholar would have to translate a document while grouped with other scholars, or an adventurer would have to follow a very vague treasure map to a terribly difficult locked chest while grouped with other adventurers... Or a warrior leads a party against an unusually dangerous foe? Something that becomes like a mini event because mechanically you can't do it alone. That way it makes sense to gain standing with your guild and also you have to talk to people.

I still have no idea what we would use them for, other than bragging rights on a leader board. Although maybe that's all it needs to be - get to 5 and your name's on a plaque with a bunch of other people, get to 10 and maybe there's an oil painting of you in the Library, get to 20 and a statue is erected somewhere.

I'd also be okay with this too - tying guildpoints/merit points/whatever into group tasks. I'm also not totally convinced we even really need some version of guild points (for the reasons you mentioned earlier in your post), but tying it to group tasks would be great when Rias finally figures out how he wants to handle group tasks.

As for the usage of those points, I think cool cosmetic items would be nice, as well as items with minor mechanical benefits that are unique from guild to guild. Things like fancier writing implements for Scholars, maybe as a way to get special chalks on a limited basis. Special exploration equipment for adventurers or fancier tools of the trade. Fancy insignias for warriors that could be class-dependent, special whetstones for maintaining sharpness when whetstones are released and sharpening weapons is expanded a bit,. Special reagents for artisans/crafters when that guild gets released, or special patterns that can be learned and added to crafts with MODIFY so you can get some cool aesthetic things.
"You hear the Woses, the Wild Men of the Woods... Remnants of an older time they be, living few and secretly, wild and wary as beasts."

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