Stun/stagger effects

Peerless warriors of varying types, from hulking armored dreadnoughts to stealthy light-footed nightblades.
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Talyn
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Stun/stagger effects

Post by Talyn »

So, something's kind of caught my attention after the past few CvC's the "Heavier" warrior class doesn't have a means of getting out of stuns or staggers, aka Deft Recovery. Would it be too op for the heavier warriors to have something to assist with that like daunting willpower or something? Something to just give them a chance even if it's an RNG like deft recovery for them to break stagger? Edit: I'll just make this a BBS post.

I've been pondering this one for a while, and while I'm not the best at making things balanced I kind of just want to draw it to people's attentions. Maybe someone can come up with a great idea.

Duelists/Nightblades - Respectable Adventurers
They all get Deft Recover and while I don't want deft recovery nerfed it certainly shows a bit more information to play with.
Deft Recovery is an ability that can be learned by characters.

IC description: Keep your wits about you and your load light, and with a little concentration you'll be able to deftly recover from nasty situations when you find yourself staggered or surprised when otherwise preoccupied.
OOC description: (An active command to attempt to remove a Stagger effect. Only works when at Encumbrance level 2 or below.)
Usage: drecover
Energy usage: -30
Cooldown timer: 30
Attribute bonuses to offense:
Intuition: +15%
Agility: +25%
Willpower: +20%

Usually, Baako rolls 125 vs dc: 50 since he has Agility

Now, Guardians/Dreadnoughts get Stability
Stability is an ability that can be learned by characters.

IC description: With the reflex to act and the proper mental and physical preparation, one can keep one's footing when others would be knocked down.
OOC description: (Passive chance to: resist knockdown effects, halve stagger-related balance reductions, halve stagger-related stun durations.)
Usage: Passive (chance-based)

There's no numbers it just says passive which is very vague! Everything doesn't NEED numbers but it does help gauge what needs to be done for it to work. Other than that, if a sweep, tackle, trample, or horse kick happens even if they remain standing they still suffer stagger. I think max stagger I saw was 12 so half is 6 seconds that's still a very long time in a CvC situation. I could make a suggestion or ideas for an ability like Deft recovery but mental or second wind instead so you recover yourself from a fight. Both Deft recovery and potentially this ability would still have a cool down on it so you can't spam it but the idea is out there. Now saying CvC needs to be cookie cutter but stagger even with it's nerf, still scary.
I'm Not Accepting Surrenders At This Time. I Want You To Know Failure, Utter Defeat, And That It Is I Who Delivers It Crashing Down Upon You.
-NotRias
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Ralnos
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Re: Stun/stagger effects

Post by Ralnos »

Hi, hello. I'd like to give a bit of input on this because I play a Berserker as a secondary character.

Staggering Blow offers a very reliably method to stunlock anything susceptible which can't dodge the hit. Methods to both break out of a stunlock via stagger spam from a single enemy and to lower duration of the time where you can do almost nothing should, in my opinion, be common place. As in, having a general ability anyone can get that reduces the duration of stagger effects on the possessor+maybe some side bonuses like ignoring channel drops due to staggering. Having specialized stronger variants for all Warrior classes would also be smart. Nerfing stagger more is always an option, too, though.

Right now, all it takes is one stagger to potentially lock something or someone in a loop of being hit for full damage+being staggered over and over and over.
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Talyn
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Re: Stun/stagger effects

Post by Talyn »

Ralnos wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:08 pm Hi, hello. I'd like to give a bit of input on this because I play a Berserker as a secondary character.

Staggering Blow offers a very reliably method to stunlock anything susceptible which can't dodge the hit.
My thoughts on Staggering blow is two things, First, add balance requirement for it. You are hitting someone so hard you stagger them. 10 balance requirement wouldn't be a bad thing seeing how I can't chink unless I have the same. Second, add a cool down on staggering blow or heavy energy use penalty. -50 energy/15 second cooldown is my thoughts on on it, perhaps a bit to hefty.
I'm Not Accepting Surrenders At This Time. I Want You To Know Failure, Utter Defeat, And That It Is I Who Delivers It Crashing Down Upon You.
-NotRias
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Ralnos
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Re: Stun/stagger effects

Post by Ralnos »

Staggering Blow is, also, not the only thing you can stunlock with and requires balance to be >= 0. Dirtkick, which is arguably even worse because it can proc on its own+do more than stagger. It has a slightly more impactful cooldown at the upside of requiring no balance at all, just a random roll when you attack as a Marauder or sacrificing your attack that "round".

The issue is that it's more common place to be able to prevent your opponent from fighting back in any way at all than it is to be able to retaliate against such tactics. Stagger is a very, very, very, very strong effect because it doesn't just stun and thus lock a bunch of actions you can do. It does seven other things that can all destroy various opponents, some more than others, by sheer virtue of mass of debuffs and other miscellaneous penalties.

Thus why I suggest that it either gets nerfed down to a much smaller handful of effects and at reduced values, have its proc chance massively dropped or have a common ability+specialized stronger abilities for breaking out of stagger and/or nerfing its effects against targets with the ability.
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saladbowl
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Re: Stun/stagger effects

Post by saladbowl »

Ralnos wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:20 pm Staggering Blow is, also, not the only thing you can stunlock with and requires balance to be >= 0. Dirtkick, which is arguably even worse because it can proc on its own+do more than stagger. It has a slightly more impactful cooldown at the upside of requiring no balance at all, just a random roll when you attack as a Marauder or sacrificing your attack that "round".
Resident Marauder checking in. Dirtkick can't stunlock: its stagger time on success is three seconds. Maybe five. It's been a while since fighting an enemy it can be used on. It is, however, bonkers in its own unique ways. Defense rolls against Dirtkick are 50% Perception and 50% Artifice instead of something like 100% Perception and 10% Artifice. It also gets a free reroll if a hand isn't free, and five rerolls if a hand is free (ash/dirt/sand/etc). More rerolls than a full balance True Strike.

It does need a nerf like many things. But in a way, it has to be stronger than attacks derived from Melee/Ranged Combat skills, as its power is dictated solely by Artifice, a skill with the primary purpose of stealing. If it wasn't strong there would be scant reason to invest in Artifice if your character isn't interested in theft. Artifice isn't like Acrobatics which applies to many different situations and abilities. And it won't get a buff next month when someone argues you can roll out of bed for a morale boost (kidding).

I wish it was 80% Combat and 5% Artifice or similar with skills and abilities more open access for creativity. But that's for a separate feedback post.
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