Rapier VS Longsword

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Talyn
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:54 pm

Rapier VS Longsword

Post by Talyn »

So this post is mostly due to how bored I was so I thought I would test out these two weapons, because longswords are really my favorite weapon in real life. I've used them in HEMA, and just they are a fun weapon to use. However, as a Duelist rapiers do tend to be the better weapon when it comes to bringing an opponent down. I won't get into a debate of a real life longsword and rapier most likely know the differences but a longsword isn't that much heavier.

So what's the difference in game, Longsword can be held with one hand or two, if you use two hands the DF does go up but not by a whole lot if you don't have the Strength attribute. A longsword also gets pierce, slash, and hack damage. Where as a Rapier only gets slash and pierce. Both get a chink but only rapiers can be used for active chink. Longsword has a chink value of 8 where a Rapier is 17. Now, the biggest thing I have an issue with is the DF of a longsword vs a rapier as shown in the examples below.


Long sword Two handed attack:
You slash at an infested vagrant with your steel longsword! Melee(d570(1x)):565 vs Dodge(d103(-1x)):18 = 547 (95%)
98 slash damage (chest)
DF - 103 * 0.95 = 97.82 round up 98

Longsword one handed attack:
You thrust at an infested vagrant with your steel longsword! Melee(d570(1x)):560 vs Dodge(d103(-4x)):4 = 556 (97%)
85 pierce damage (chest)
DF - 87 * 0.97 = 84.39 round up is 85 (this one doesn't make sense to me. Here's another one. If my programming days remember correctly I think it rounds up after 0.2?)

You hack at an infested vagrant with your steel longsword! Melee(d570([1]x)):502 vs Dodge(d103(-2x)):7 = 495 (86%)
75 hack damage (chest)
DF - 87 * 0.86 = 74.82 round up 75

Rapier attack:
You thrust at an infested vagrant with your steel rapier! Melee(d456):445 vs Dodge(d103(-8x)):24 = 421 (92%)
89 pierce damage (chest)
DF - 97 * 0.92 = 89.24 round down 89

So, to sum up I think that a rapier is the superior weapon choice mechanical for someone that doesn't have the strength attribute. A rapier vs longsword in real life well from all the research I've been looking up a Longsword would always win against a Rapier in a death match if both wielders were of equal skill. Rapiers weigh around 2.5 pounds (not sure what they weigh in game) and a Longsword 3.5 pounds (against not sure in game). A rapier wound that is not immediately lethal will not take the opponent out of the fight, where as a sub-optimal hit from a longsword can still disable an opponent due to the weight.

I know some people might complain to this thought but I feel rapiers DF should be lowered just by a few numbers and two handing a longsword DF maybe raised a little more. You're sacrificing taking a shield or in a duelist's case a dagger for main-gauche. Now, I don't want rapiers nerfed into junky weapons cause they really are great weapons against unarmored targets. Personally I think lowering it and I know this is steel, but lowering the rapier DF to equal the same as one handed a Longsword wouldn't be a bad thing, that would leave two handed longsword the same and giving a 16 point value. having it at 103 doesn't hurt because it does have a very very slim chance to one shot but very often.
I'm Not Accepting Surrenders At This Time. I Want You To Know Failure, Utter Defeat, And That It Is I Who Delivers It Crashing Down Upon You.
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Navi
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Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:07 am

Re: Rapier VS Longsword

Post by Navi »

Just wanted to add a few more observations along with the original post. Longswords have hack damage which can cause fractures, which is probably something that parallels the idea that a good hit from one can take someone out of the fight in real life.

I also did not see a damage example for rapier's slashing potential. I don't really see rapiers having an equal ability to slash compared to a longsword. I think of maybe small gouges, enough to cause bleeding for sure, but decapitating someone isn't something they would be able to do in my opinion. The durability should also be considered when examining the differences between these weapons. Longswords are likely going to be sturdier than a rapier, and able to take more punishment, whereas a rapier would probably get banged up more. I don't think this was ever a thing in the other game. If something was made of steel, it had the same durability as any other item made of steel.

So in conclusion, make rapier's ability to slash less so than that of a longsword, probably around the 65 damage mark, which I believe is the point at which wounds begin to bleed. Make durability dependent on weapon type, as well as material. I think reducing the rapier's piercing damage and increasing the longsword's own damage is a bit unwarranted if these changes happen, as the rapier is trading some of that ability to brute force through armor for more agility and less damage types.
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Talyn
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Re: Rapier VS Longsword

Post by Talyn »

This is true but the amount of damage it takes from a hack to cause a slight fracture is pretty high. You need to do at least 40-50 hack damage in order to cause a fracture, and from what I've seen damage will always result the same based on the weapon, not on the damage type
I'm Not Accepting Surrenders At This Time. I Want You To Know Failure, Utter Defeat, And That It Is I Who Delivers It Crashing Down Upon You.
-NotRias
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