Picking Pockets/Stealing from PCs

Have a new general feature to suggest, or think one should be tweaked? Share your ideas here.
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nobody
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Re: Picking Pockets/Stealing from PCs

Post by nobody »

While artifice is being looked at, I wanted to add two more things to that list (at the bottom)
Irylia wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:51 am So here's what I think we've come up with so far as potential options for helping with both sides of this issue:
- Limit number of successful thefts in a given timeframe
- Add NPC thieves/random thefts (which I believe is already to-doed)
- Add container targeting to pickpocket commands
- Add a way for victims to alert guards if they notice a thief
- Add tips about keeping bags closed, using banknotes, and other anti-theft mechanics to the new player tutorial
- Potentially add a theft-free timer for brand new characters so they can safely get started and worry about losses once they're established
- Potentially increase risk gains from theft attempts
- Potentially add a mechanic to discourage or disallow picking pockets from someone if they "catch" you but are AFK or otherwise do not act on it - at least for a short cooldown period
- Add road/travel thieves
- Require melee proximity for stealing, this will add a pair of stalk rolls and allow immediate melee retribution when a thief is caught
- Add a way to approach people nonchalantly while not hiding (maybe requiring artifice?), so it should close to melee range but not look overtly aggressive - possibly also optionally opening some distance immediately after if the theft was successful to simulate the thief attempting to appear as someone just walking past
Acarin
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Re: Picking Pockets/Stealing from PCs

Post by Acarin »

I think it also might be nice to separate catastrophic failures (i.e. person sees you with your hand in their bag and catches you in the act of palming their riln) versus a normal failure (person sees you getting close to their bag and knows something is probably up - maybe decides to watch you). If guards are implemented, I would suggest that accusations can only be made mechanically on a catastrophic failure.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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Jaster
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Re: Picking Pockets/Stealing from PCs

Post by Jaster »

Acarin wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:25 am Thieving is not easy or super profitable most of the time so putting huge limitations on it seems unnecessary.
While I don't have experience stealing from PCs in this game, I have a little bit in "that other game". Just a little, mind you. If the mechanics are similar, as I am almost certain they are, then this is likely true, and probably even more-so with the Risk mechanic in this game.

Even so, my personal approach was always, usually, mostly limiting myself to 3 successful steals from a single PC per encounter. Sometimes this occurred while anonymous and in full hiding, but often it would happen during the course of a conversation or "scene".

My hands are itchy even thinking about it.

My point is, I worked hard to get that good, and I never appreciated people who didn't put in the work to defend themselves from it dragging me through the mud because they couldn't take responsibility for their stuff. Rias is a thoughtful developer, more-so than we can see in most other games, and in almost every scenario in "that other game", there was a way to mitigate or outright stop someone from getting at your jewels.

But alas, people always end up being forgetful, or lazy, or both. And then fortune shines on the thief, but you can't bottle that lightning.
Acarin
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Re: Picking Pockets/Stealing from PCs

Post by Acarin »

No one could ever bottle your lightning, JasMaster 2021.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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Jaster
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Location: Kentucky

Re: Picking Pockets/Stealing from PCs

Post by Jaster »

Acarin wrote: Fri Mar 12, 2021 12:19 pm No one could ever bottle your lightning, JasMaster 2021.
Many tried, all failed. #cantbottlemylightning #feelthethunder #freakbabycorvus #RIP
Navi
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Re: Picking Pockets/Stealing from PCs

Post by Navi »

I agree with everything that has been said here about limiting theft. Someone mentioned a specific case in the other game that had happened. I can clear things up in that regard. The person who had the key always kept their container closed, they would open it to retrieve riln, or some other things. My character observed this, noticed that they were in the middle of a transaction at a festival and kept the container opened. I got lucky with my first two pulls, I think the first one got jade or something like that. The second was the key. I literally pooped bricks when I saw that. So yes, even keeping your containers closed is not a 100% full proof solution. As to how my character found out which house it belonged to, this wasn't their first key theft, I definitely think this was the last one though. So I was pretty familiar with where different houses were located. I went through Shadgard, Mistral, Haiban, and every hamlet trying every house. It didn't match to any of them, so I went to the last place I hadn't tried. It was in a very hostile area, which I had to sneak through to find the house. I located it and unlike the other houses I had broken into, saw that there were tons and tons and tons of things. I took as much as I could carry in that first tripped, then returned with a trunk and made several trips to remove everything. As for them being offline, they were not offline. This entire thing happened while they were online, as back then the who system hadn't been locked. I did make several attempts to sell them their things back too them, but 100k for their deed and everything else in the house was too much. So I decided to sell everything off to other players. A lot of that stuff is still making its circulation around the playerbase today.
The only reason why I am posting this is because after everything was done, while to me, at the time, I felt like I had literally hit the jackpot with my luck, I didn't really understand how incredibly devastating it was to those players. If I could go back and redo things a different way, I certainly would. I've felt that way for quite a while now. It was never my intention to drive off a player from a game. So yeah, speaking as someone who has spent ample time on the other side, stealing could really use hard limits, because things can get out of hand very quickly even with such hard limits in place. After all, it only took me two tries to get this key out of a bag that was almost always closed.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
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Irylia
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Re: Picking Pockets/Stealing from PCs

Post by Irylia »

Thanks for clarifying what happened from your perspective. It was several years ago so I'm sure details got lost on my end or I may have misheard things. Either way, I'm glad we agree it was not a great situation to be in for those characters involved and that this game could benefit from some form of additional protection for players.
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Avedri
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Re: Picking Pockets/Stealing from PCs

Post by Avedri »

Navi wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:43 pm I agree with everything that has been said here about limiting theft. Someone mentioned a specific case in the other game that had happened. I can clear things up in that regard. The person who had the key always kept their container closed, they would open it to retrieve riln, or some other things. My character observed this, noticed that they were in the middle of a transaction at a festival and kept the container opened. I got lucky with my first two pulls, I think the first one got jade or something like that. The second was the key. I literally pooped bricks when I saw that. So yes, even keeping your containers closed is not a 100% full proof solution. As to how my character found out which house it belonged to, this wasn't their first key theft, I definitely think this was the last one though. So I was pretty familiar with where different houses were located. I went through Shadgard, Mistral, Haiban, and every hamlet trying every house. It didn't match to any of them, so I went to the last place I hadn't tried. It was in a very hostile area, which I had to sneak through to find the house. I located it and unlike the other houses I had broken into, saw that there were tons and tons and tons of things. I took as much as I could carry in that first tripped, then returned with a trunk and made several trips to remove everything. As for them being offline, they were not offline. This entire thing happened while they were online, as back then the who system hadn't been locked. I did make several attempts to sell them their things back too them, but 100k for their deed and everything else in the house was too much. So I decided to sell everything off to other players. A lot of that stuff is still making its circulation around the playerbase today.
The only reason why I am posting this is because after everything was done, while to me, at the time, I felt like I had literally hit the jackpot with my luck, I didn't really understand how incredibly devastating it was to those players. If I could go back and redo things a different way, I certainly would. I've felt that way for quite a while now. It was never my intention to drive off a player from a game. So yeah, speaking as someone who has spent ample time on the other side, stealing could really use hard limits, because things can get out of hand very quickly even with such hard limits in place. After all, it only took me two tries to get this key out of a bag that was almost always closed.

Hey, it's super easy to spin a narrative when you assume the other party is never going to have a say about it.

The truth is I didn't even keep my key in a locked container because I had no idea that house keys could be stolen. Rias and I literally played a game for years where house keys were unique to owner and could not be stolen so it was my failed assumption that the same design decision would be carried over to "that other game."

Next part of the story, is after it was stolen I did log off. I know because I keep a lot of logs and I still have part of the one where I logged in a day or two later and my house was essentially completely ripped off. I thought there was a bug. Gifts, alters, unique in game quest items all gone. Also, at the time you said that you knew exactly where my house was because you had been stalking me, not because you had been trying every door and home to figure out what key was mine. In fact, part of the reason why someone was removed or demoted from staff was that it was heavily implied that they had directed you into this, making the OOC bleed very much IC and abuse power their power.

On another note those town guards were useless and so was the leader at the time but he pretty much told me it didn't matter that you had my deed because I was the owner of the house. I know because I was able to sell the house to the city and get that riln.

And then it was pretty much well known you were in the wrong and had abused things because an NPC worked with my character to retrieve a majority of the goods through a quest IC to make sure I could get them back without great penalty. That never ended up happening though as I stopped playing. So maybe the only true part to your story is other people in that game are blessed with my super cool items in rotation.

I'm here, I'm the other player. You're welcome to apologize directly to me.
Navi
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Re: Picking Pockets/Stealing from PCs

Post by Navi »

I do apologize for the way I handled the situation. I won't argue with you over specific details, but everything I said in my previous post is 100% true. As for your claims that you spoke with me and asked how I knew where the house was, I don't remember ever talking to you in tells or in an IC manner about this related situation. I only ever tried to sell you your things back via a third party, which I'm assuming is what you believed the NPC quest to be.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
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