Micro-skill improvements (Weight skill rolls to practice instead of always using current?)

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Edoras
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Micro-skill improvements (Weight skill rolls to practice instead of always using current?)

Post by Edoras »

Right now, when you train a skill, your skill level immediately jumps up and your practice remains where it was, and you must "catch up" with your practice in order to train more.

While this is nice in that you experience instant improvement as soon as you train, I would prefer a system where you could see the improvement in your abilities as you practiced them. For some reasons it feels bad when I can go fight a bunch of ravens or skeletons and the only time I ever get to see improvement is when I take a break to go visit the trainer. I like seeing my roll increase from 150 to 151 in between battles.

What do you all think about having your actual skill roll always be an average of your current + practice? So for example if my melee combat was at 250 and I skill increased to 275, my rolls would start at 262 and then slowly increase to 275 as I practiced more. I know this ultimately means I'm asking for basically a nerf, but I feel like it would 'feel' more like I was growing as I practiced my tasks. Personally I'd even prefer a average weighted more towards my practice than my 'current', like if I was at 275 current, 250 practice, my rolls start at 256 and then slowly move up to 275 as I practiced more.
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Rias
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Re: Micro-skill improvements (Weight skill rolls to practice instead of always using current?)

Post by Rias »

I've toyed with various ideas to this effect. I'd love to hear thoughts from others.
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nobody
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Re: Micro-skill improvements (Weight skill rolls to practice instead of always using current?)

Post by nobody »

I've thought about that, though you'd need to also cap skill at current (min(current,mean(current,practice))) because practice doesn't get reset as part of rerolls currently. If you want a smoother feel to your own growth though, consider using skill increase melee 1, and visiting town a little more often.

Edit to add: I missed Rias' post, so wanted to go back and add an actual opinion. I'm more inclined toward using the practice level than an average of current and practice, so current acts as a cap for practice rather than practice +25 being a cap for current. My only concern with using either of those rather than the current skill is with crafting. At present you tend to get very poor quality results at skill 1, though all crafts have at least one item that is "average" quality at or before skill 25, allowing crafters to start making things they can sell right away. I don't love the idea of requiring crafters to make a bunch of rubbish items before they can actually produce one worth selling. That being said, making rubbish before you can make something of actual worth seems more realistic. Overall, I lean toward keeping things as is, since anyone wanting the smoother progression could return to town anytime they've gained a skill point to raise their skill.
Last edited by nobody on Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Acarin
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Re: Micro-skill improvements (Weight skill rolls to practice instead of always using current?)

Post by Acarin »

At higher levels, you can get your practice up pretty quick so I'm not sure that it would make a real difference in the end. This would probably apply more at earlier levels where costs are lower and you're potentially buying more ranks at once.

I also like not having to immediately go grind out practice as my first activity... so I'm on the side of keeping the current system.
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Navi
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Re: Micro-skill improvements (Weight skill rolls to practice instead of always using current?)

Post by Navi »

I could appreciate the averaged values personally. Though, the change wouldn't be more than a possible 12 point reduction to rolls, which isn't a huge range. I can see it possibly effecting challenge ratings to some degree, which could be beneficial for boosting practice gains. However, it wouldn't really directly affect how much a player would need to grind to get from point A to point B.
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Karjus
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Re: Micro-skill improvements (Weight skill rolls to practice instead of always using current?)

Post by Karjus »

Personally, I'd enjoy the gradual growth instead of jumps of 10/25/etc. I think it would feel more fluid to a degree, and also enjoyable seeing the little gain.
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Xandrea
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Re: Micro-skill improvements (Weight skill rolls to practice instead of always using current?)

Post by Xandrea »

I'm really not so keen on this. There's certainly a little bit of jumping but, for a number of non-combat skills this would make their initial investment much more tedious. Especially crafting skills where you don't feel any jump at all. I'll admit that I have a bias against this idea because I've gotten two characters up to 100+ in an offensive skill before I realized that i really don't enjoy the combat grind in the first place. Being able to jump up my skill lets me feel a very tangible reward for spending way too much time being bored attacking things. (The only exception to this are the infested Marauders. They make me think and stay alert to the situation as it evolves, rather than press up arrow to get "attack" ready and wait my turn to swing.) The way I internalize it is the jump is my character fully processing the fighting and and gleaning how they can improve.

What makes me wary of it most isn't the later levels but, the earliest ones. A character's first exposure to combat is risky. Reducing their rolls increases that risk a lot. Even if it's a mere 13 points at the beginning.

Due to my bias i'd take these words with a grain of salt. I've focused primarily on fighting the infested on Taurekan soil.
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Rias
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Re: Micro-skill improvements (Weight skill rolls to practice instead of always using current?)

Post by Rias »

I think if I were to do anything, I'd have it just base off the straight practice level rather than averaging things. The time required building up practice shouldn't be affected, because you'd have to build that up anyway to continue increasing the skill, right?

@Nobody to your point about rerolls, I could just have it go off the base skill level if it happens to be lower than the practice level for some reason.

I'd still love to hear thoughts if anyone else has any to add.
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Re: Micro-skill improvements (Weight skill rolls to practice instead of always using current?)

Post by nobody »

Rias wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 1:50 pmThe time required building up practice shouldn't be affected, because you'd have to build that up anyway to continue increasing the skill, right?
I think that's mostly right. Under the current system if you don't run back to train once you hit your full practice amount you're theoretically "wasting practice" (assuming that you already have the skill points and the intent to spend them). With the system flipped, it'd be the same. I think the only three differences I've thought of would be fairly minor.

1. It'd be slightly less bad in terms of grind because when you're rolling +0 through +24 (or +0 through +9) because you'll theoretically be able to get more practice per kill because of the skill differential. I expect the impact to be very small there, so probably not relevant.

2. Combat skills I believe are capped based on the challenge of mobs currently available. I'm not sure what level that is at (nor do I need to), but suppose for arguments' sake it's 500. Under the current system then, one's maximum combat skill is 525. Under the flipped system it's 500 (that cap will still be at 525, but rolls would stop at 600 vs 625). Again, not a big issue, eventually there will be critters in game such that anyone wanting to max their combat skill will be able to and then it'll be hitting guild caps for everyone rather than an arbitrary mob difficulty cut off.

3. At present, I think it might be possible to raise your skill high enough to disable practice gains. Going off the above example, if you stopped getting practice when your Current skill went above 500, you could practice to 476 and skill increase combat max and find yourself at 501 and unable to raise your practice from 476 to 500. The alternative system wouldn't have that issue. This is so hypothetical it's irrelevant and like the above, solved by game development progress.

And last, an observation. It looks like combat people are interested in watching that roll tick up because it's exciting and feels like progress when you're actually out doing the thing. Crafting people aren't excited about the potential change though and I wonder if that's because it's not possible to see crafting rolls (I don't think there are any to see currently). I might be as excited if I were watching my crafting rolls get thrown and seeing them tick up as I continue to make more whatever.
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