The Treasure System

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Dennis
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:46 am

Re: The Treasure System

Post by Dennis »

Someone asked this in passing, how does this impact submerged chests? Do they also scale appropriately?
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Rias
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Re: The Treasure System

Post by Rias »

They have their own rules for loot potential, and are unaffected by these changes. They're a rare find meant to be a nice little occasional surprise for people who make a significant investment into the rather limited-scope Swimming skill, and not a regular means of income.
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Dennis
Posts: 218
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Re: The Treasure System

Post by Dennis »

Since the ol' "post anything productive so it gets seen" probably still applies here...

We've been discussing the new treasure loot system, which has been exciting and interesting for all the parties involved in the treasure hunt. Overall it's a lot more rewarding and the tier system is pushing people like Acarin to hunt more appropriate to their level (and feel rewarded for doing so).

We all have fears about riln economy bloat, though, as Acarin also shared he found and sold some gems for 20 thousand plus. While these were rare and few in between, he's also averaging consistently these numbers across selling multiple gems at once, frequently. Since there's such a strong upward pressure on the loot system, we wanted to suggest toning down the frequency of gem appearance and to add in new items to the loot reel, including but not limited to metal ingots, clothing items, and maybe secondary smeltin ingredients like coal or tin. Crafting ingredients would still be cool to pick up and just as rewarding without necessarily giving riln as the reward.
"Always remember that we are a community before anything else. Before being a 'game' or a 'world' we are a bunch of folk who get together to have fun."
Acarin
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Re: The Treasure System

Post by Acarin »

Rias, I'm sure you've seen us talking about this and let your ruppets (Rias puppets) know last night. I have managed to pull in 430k since this update, primarily from the fixed chests in tarueka (laborers and inner tarueka) with the occasional chests from drops when I kill things to access those chests. I have regularly seen gems in most hunts in the 5k to 9k range even in lower areas (lots of pink jades from laborers).

This seems like it will lead to some significant inflation. I'm making 3x to 10x more per outing than I was before. I love seeing the cool new gem drops but the average price is definitely too high. I think that crude (but sellable) gems should be dropped into the treasure system and the average quality should just be lower overall. In addition, I'd recommend drastically increasing the respawn time on the fixed chests. Third, mixing in some lower value but interesting drops and lowering the chance of a gem drop (for existing areas at least but maybe not quite as much for cultists and the new hunting area when it comes out) may help as well... as Dennis said, metal drops or randomized clothing would be lower value but still cool.

Right now, free and renewable chests with high drop rate seems like its going to cause inflation and seriously add to the riln sink problem.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
Navi
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Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:07 am

Re: The Treasure System

Post by Navi »

I really like the idea of introducing new items to boxes to offset the chances of obtaining gems. I think an additional mechanic that limits the frequency in which you can obtain lootboxes would also go a long way towards preventing inflation, similar to the idea of limiting the spawn rates for the coffers and strongboxes. I do feel that this should be on a character level, rather than an area level, as one person with a very high combat ability, could run an area into the ground, and ruin the experience for another player just starting out.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
Acarin
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: The Treasure System

Post by Acarin »

Just to reiterate this since Navi is not using the combat system to generate treasure, I dont see a problem at all here. It is way more rapid to acquire loot from fixed/guaranteed boxes rather than hunt for them. I could spend 30 minutes killing cultists and only get 2 boxes. The problem is the loot sale price and frequency in combination with the guaranteed boxes (both through scavenging and fixed boxes... likely primarily through the fixed boxes but there should be some restrictions to scavenging high level areas early on as well)
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
Navi
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:07 am

Re: The Treasure System

Post by Navi »

I didn't mean for my post to suggest that the spawn timers on fixed boxes in areas shouldn't be increased, just to clarify, but that an added measure of also limiting how many boxes is obtained through looting corpses would also go a long way towards achieving the desired goal.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
Acarin
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: The Treasure System

Post by Acarin »

As I told you before, I have tested that and it does not seem to be contributing to the issue as the drop rate of chests is very reasonable from hunting. In the time that I can open 50 fixed chests and get great drops, I usually only end up with a few combat chests. It's a volume in a short time issue and a pricing issue.

I understand that since you are personally benefitting from this, you don't want to see it turned down on your end, but this really is unrelated to combat. It's more related to locksmiths in general whether combat or noncombat.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
Acarin
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: The Treasure System

Post by Acarin »

From some additional testing over the last couple hours, it seems like this has been significantly toned down which is great. I have also noticed that the spawn rate for fixed chests seems to be a decent amount slower (although I could be imagining this since I haven't been timing)...

First, I would like to say thank you for addressing this. And before I go on, I'll just say that I would rather see the rates be too low rather than frighteningly high resulting in imbalances.

That being said, I tested in laborers (fixed chests), inner tarueka (fixed chests and combat drops) and cultists (combat drops). Out of somewhere around 40 lockboxes over 2 hours, I found 4 gems (all of which were below 700 riln in value). I think it's seeming more reasonable, but in the interest of making this feel good, a little turn up might be good as well. The total value of finds over that period was about 11-13k including riln drops from kills for reference.

I would, of course, rather it stay where it is than see it go back to anywhere near before but feels like it could be a slight overadjustment so some interim rate closer to this end but a bit higher would likely feel right.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
Acarin
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: The Treasure System

Post by Acarin »

Tested it further and it's always hard to tell with RNG but seems to be in a good place right now.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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