Moving player bodies to other locations other than the crypts.

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Navi
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:07 am

Moving player bodies to other locations other than the crypts.

Post by Navi »

Last night my character was killed. I did a bit of RP before setting out to find it, playing the whole paranoia death thing as best as I could manage. I went to where my death took place and found nothing. I went back to Shadgard thinking it would be in the crypts and it was not there either. I asked over OOC what I should do and was told I should go back to the place where I died and look in the general area. I was unable to locate it, and had to give up because of my time constraints RL.
There doesn't seem to be any clear cut answer among the player base if this is considered griefing or not. A player made the argument that since a player corpse can't be stolen from, moving it anywhere other than the crypts doesn't serve any purpose other than to troll the player. Another player had argued that since it's not in the policy then it's not griefing. I haven't heard anything from Rias on this kind of behavior, and from what I was told this hasn't happened before on COGG. I'd like a clear definitive answer on this matter.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
User avatar
Irylia
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:20 pm

Re: Moving player bodies to other locations other than the crypts.

Post by Irylia »

I don't know if this is going to be super helpful, but at one point Rias was considering a deathknell variant. It just never came in yet. Here's what he had to say about it in 2019 (obviously subject to change):
Brainstorming. I believe most here are familiar with the Deathknell. So how about this time, the spirit retains a link to its old corpse, resulting in among other things A) Whenever you trigger the Deathknell, it shows recipients the corpse's current location. B) If you end up back in a new body, you can grab a deathknell tuner and still trigger that link every now and then to see where your corpse is. That could cut down on frustrations with people dragging corpses... The plan is that triggering it reveals the current location of the corpse, rather than only the location of death. This should make locating corpses far less frustrating.
So it seems like the intention was to allow players to drag corpses as an IC action, but that there would be a mechanical way for the player to find it so as to prevent potential abuse. Also... I doubt the incident last night was meant to be trolling or griefing, but I am sorry you weren't able to get your body back right away and that it caused you frustration. I hope you were able to work it out this morning.
Navi
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:07 am

Re: Moving player bodies to other locations other than the crypts.

Post by Navi »

While that would be awesome to counteract the not being able to locate a body after it has been moved. Since you cannot do that, without the aid of someone with really high tracking, it still seems pretty annoying/griefing/trolling behavior to me. Since as was stated before, there's no benefit to a player doing this other than to possibly cover up a murder, or to gain some really screwed up since of pleasure from doing so. I'd be completely fine with it, if the stated mechanics were in place, but giving someone a go ahead card on this just because mechanics have been thought out, and not actually implemented, is screwed up.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
Acarin
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: Moving player bodies to other locations other than the crypts.

Post by Acarin »

It would be really great if you could keep IC actions in the game instead of making posts like this outside of it and also making personal attacks. I gave you an IC chance for me to lead you directly to the body. You decided not to take it. I have no hard feelings against you in an OOC sense but if you have an issue, I ask that you settle it in game. Have you tried to do that? It did not seem that way. I do think the situation with your body was a great opportunity for rp which you chose not to take. My point is that you should keep this in game rather than posting here.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
Navi
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:07 am

Re: Moving player bodies to other locations other than the crypts.

Post by Navi »

I'm sorry you feel like this is an attack on you personally in an OOC manner. Note how I did not specify who it was in character or out of character that it was. I also want to point you towards the focus on the mechanics at hand, rather than the actual actions of the player. I don't care that you chose to do this, and even offering an IC method to resolve it, it does not solve the issue. Are players to just hope that other players offer them opportunities to recover their bodies? Sure it was stated that mechanics to assist players in dealing with these types of behaviors was being contemplated, but that should not give any player the green light for these kinds of behaviors in the meantime. I've kept my dealings with the happenings in an IC manner, and have addressed them in an OOC manner accordingly. Mainly that the person who did it is going to be weighed by Undm and sent to whatever afterlife awaits them. That's the extent of my RP in that regard if you're curious. My OOC addressing is in this post, which you have kindly responded to, so thanks.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
Acarin
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: Moving player bodies to other locations other than the crypts.

Post by Acarin »

Navi wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:49 pm ...it still seems pretty annoying/griefing/trolling behavior to me. Since as was stated before, there's no benefit to a player doing this other than to possibly cover up a murder, or to gain some really screwed up since of pleasure from doing so.
You are saying that you were griefed if I am understanding correctly and this was griefing behavior. You were also calling me a troll quite clearly. Again, this is incorrect. It is clear that your post was not about the mechanic.

That being said, this has not been a big issue in game so far with people unable to find their body... but I would suggest that if they can't find their body for 12 hours of game time, maybe an npc eventually uncovers it and drags it back. It spoils the rp for whoever dragged it if there's no point in doing that.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
Navi
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:07 am

Re: Moving player bodies to other locations other than the crypts.

Post by Navi »

I point out once again, I did not name you specifically in my post, and only referenced the behavior. If you feel you had some RP reasoning for doing what you did, that's your deal. From my perspective, the action is trolling, regardless if it were you, or Rias himself. Since there is no available method of counteracting this type of action available to anybody in any situation, it's trolling/annoying/griefing, in every sense of the words. A player shouldn't be required to up their tracking skill just to recover their body because another player decides to move it away. A player shouldn't be reliant on other players to help them to do this because another player decides to move their body away either. That's called forced RP.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
Acarin
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: Moving player bodies to other locations other than the crypts.

Post by Acarin »

It's irrelevant whether you name me or not and I'm really not offended at all. Everyone knows OOC who did it anyways. There is currently a small player base. I am posting because I just think this type of entitled behavior is a dangerous precedent and it sours the rp experience for many that want to player shadier characters.

My point is that you should go out and look for your body rather than expecting the game to do it for you. This is not the other game and you shouldn't expect exactly the same... If you can't find it, enlist some help. Use it as an opportunity to rp and make some friends or new enemies who will drag your body even further (Either is great. Your choice). That's it. You didn't need an experienced tracker to find it. You just needed to explore a bit.. Everyone likes to get involved here from what I've seen so far so I'm sure you could get a grid going if you really wanted to.

The next time it happens, you will be in the same situation. You will be upset. I'm just trying to tell you that blaming other players or the overall game mechanics because you ran into trouble is not helpful to anyone. This game will supposedly have more conflict and danger in the future. You should take that into consideration.

I'm sorry but it doesn't always have to be easy. If you make enemies ICly, you can expect them to do things you don't like and those things can cause you problems. That's it. Don't get into the situation in the first place if you don't want to be there.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
Navi
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:07 am

Re: Moving player bodies to other locations other than the crypts.

Post by Navi »

LOL
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
Navi
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:07 am

Re: Moving player bodies to other locations other than the crypts.

Post by Navi »

Sorry, was busy playing the game and laughing. Your argument is that, while the behavior is trolling/griefing/annoying, it's okay because it's a method of playing a shadier character. You seem to think that I didn't go out and look for my body, and this assumption means that my argument is flawed. While I think that very response is already suggestive enough as to why this sort of behavior shouldn't be allowed/encouraged, killing players already comes with a steep price. Your bucket is emptied, you have to purchase food, equipment, etc, to recover the corpse, you have morale, and sanity loss stacked atop one another. There's no need for there to be any further griefing. If you want to argue that point, then perhaps trying to nail down the idea of just being able to loot player corpses is something you should aim for. At least then, being able to pin the murder/killing would be possible, rather than it just being a he said she said/ zie said sort of thing.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
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