In-game chat to be disabled

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ocayucos
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Re: In-game chat to be disabled

Post by ocayucos »

I'm not sure I like this. I see where it comes from, but like Nobody said I feel disconnected from the community, and I don't like Discord. Someone was struggling with figuring out mining the other day and asked for help on ESP, and I wanted to help them but my character didn't know the answer IC but I did OOC, so I had to look at the list of players and guess who to send a tell to to help them out. What if chat was normally available with an option for people to turn it off, and it could be turned off for everyone when events and invasions are going to make sure people stay focused?
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Rias
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Re: In-game chat to be disabled

Post by Rias »

In-game chat's been disabled for a while now so people have had some time to get a feel for how the game is without it. Any other opinions on the matter? I still lean toward keeping it disabled, but I'm happy to give opportunities to convince me otherwise (or to convince me to stick with how it is now) if there are strong feelings about it.
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Acarin
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Re: In-game chat to be disabled

Post by Acarin »

I do find myself more disconnected from the community (and bored) without OOC but understand why it's gone. Honestly, would like to see it back but in a less obtrusive form that could be ignored if needed... maybe an on/off toggle with default for new players at off?
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Rias
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Re: In-game chat to be disabled

Post by Rias »

If brought back, I'd want to have some stricter guidelines on what is and is not appropriate for the on-topic channel. I have a grumpy hermit's low tolerance for too much insubstantial small talk on what is supposed to be an on-topic channel, so I'd probably be a bit more of a stickler about that. (I admit I do occasionally fall into the trap myself - I can't deny my occasional hypocrisy.) Brief greetings/good-to-see-yous/see-you-laters are always fine as far as I'm concerned, but beyond that I'd want it to be kept strictly on-topic about the game and not devolve into stuff that's too silly or facetious. I also admit I get frustrated by the occasional context-less comments that can show up, like a random "huh" or "LOL" or "typo". I'd like to see those sent in tells to the relevant parties rather than broadcast to the entire game population when it only holds meaning to one or a small handful of people.

I've many times considered a way for players to trigger the bot to remind the #ooc channel of the guidelines, so nobody feels personally confronted by another player (or that they have to personally confront a fellow player). I know players trying to moderate one another even in the most polite and understanding ways can occasionally somehow spiral into offense and petty conflict. Nobody likes being called out by one of their peers.

I get that a lot of this is probably my own neuroticism. I can always just ignore the #ooc channel myself, but then I really don't want to miss out on important mechanical questions or interesting lore questions. It's hard finding a balance. I don't want to harm the whole community over my own pickiness, though.

I'd likely disable the in-game #ooc channel during events, so people stay focused on the events themselves instead of OOC table banter about said events.

Agelity just mentioned the idea of some way to disable #ooc when in the room with another PC. I do kind of like the idea of making it impossible to use it if you're in the room with X or more people, because one of the saddest things I've both experienced and frequently heard complained about is when a group is all together in-game, but the characters are all just sitting in silence while the players are all goofing off in OOC chat. Especially when there's that one poor character who has OOC turned off anyway and is wondering why all their companions just suddenly fell silent and are now unresponsive. Your characters are all together in the same spot: Get that RP going while you're all together!

I don't think I'd bring the off-topic channel in-game in any way, though. I want to keep that strictly separated from the game.
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Agelity
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Re: In-game chat to be disabled

Post by Agelity »

Thoughts on a group or room tell feature for things we may wish to share OOC with a particular group or area we're a part of it (for whatever reason) but maybe not want to have to broadcast to everyone via OOC or repeat for however many relevant parties are involved?
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nobody
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Re: In-game chat to be disabled

Post by nobody »

I would at least like to see the OOC channel accessible from OOC locations (the account screen, the mentor's lounge, and most especially character creation). I imagine it would only rarely be utilized from the account screen or mentor's lounge, but I would feel bad if someone went into character creation, tried to ask a question, saw they needed a third party client and just walked away. As previously noted, it's possible to see OOC messages in the account screen, they just can't be responded to.
Rias wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 5:01 pm If brought back, I'd want to have some stricter guidelines on what is and is not appropriate for the on-topic channel. I have a grumpy hermit's low tolerance for too much insubstantial small talk on what is supposed to be an on-topic channel, so I'd probably be a bit more of a stickler about that. (I admit I do occasionally fall into the trap myself - I can't deny my occasional hypocrisy.) Brief greetings/good-to-see-yous/see-you-laters are always fine as far as I'm concerned, but beyond that I'd want it to be kept strictly on-topic about the game and not devolve into stuff that's too silly or facetious. I also admit I get frustrated by the occasional context-less comments that can show up, like a random "huh" or "LOL" or "typo". I'd like to see those sent in tells to the relevant parties rather than broadcast to the entire game population when it only holds meaning to one or a small handful of people.
I definitely dig the idea of sending tells to the relevant parties rather than throwing context-less stuff into OOC, but right now you can only send a tell if you know the player name for the character.
Agelity wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:58 pm Thoughts on a group or room tell feature for things we may wish to share OOC with a particular group or area we're a part of it (for whatever reason) but maybe not want to have to broadcast to everyone via OOC or repeat for however many relevant parties are involved?
This would probably be the most elegant solution, as it also handles nicely the issues with sending tells via character names (you don't know the characters name or they're disguised, etc.).

Regarding having stricter rules for the OOC channel, I'm ok with that. Heuristics will go some way toward helping with that though. If you name a channel Question, or Help, or Support rather than OOC, the name will be a constant reminder of what the channel is intended for. That being said, is talking about silly game-related things in the OOC channel out of bounds? For living by stricter guidelines, I'd want those guidelines written out. I'm good with abiding by them, as long as I know what they are.
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Re: In-game chat to be disabled

Post by Rias »

Agelity wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:58 pm Thoughts on a group or room tell feature for things we may wish to share OOC with a particular group or area we're a part of it (for whatever reason) but maybe not want to have to broadcast to everyone via OOC or repeat for however many relevant parties are involved?
I think that could work.
nobody wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:39 pm I would at least like to see the OOC channel accessible from OOC locations (the account screen, the mentor's lounge, and most especially character creation).
This could work if we end up not bringing it back game-wide.
nobody wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:39 pm right now you can only send a tell if you know the player name for the character.
Agelity's suggestion would help with this as you said, but also know that you can send a tell to whatever you've named a person as. So if I'm in a room and an unidentified person seems to be having trouble trying to chop down a tree, I could name them as, say, "Confusedlogger" and then: TELL CONFUSEDLOGGER Try the FELL command. See HELP WOODCUTTING for more info.
nobody wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:39 pm Heuristics will go some way toward helping with that though. If you name a channel Question, or Help, or Support rather than OOC, the name will be a constant reminder of what the channel is intended for.
I've been thinking about that for a while. "OOC" could well make people think it's just anything out-of-character, on-topic or not. Maybe I'll name the channel "On-Topic" or something? Then just have the OOC and CHAT commands both go to that channel (since I don't want off-topic chat in-game). Not sure that name quite works, maybe someone else can give a better suggestion since I don't necessarily want to limit it to questions only. Getting feedback for suggestions (still try to post them on the BBS where they're more likely to be seen and considered!), brainstorming ideas for the game, sharing when you discover a command or mechanic you didn't know existed, feedback on an announcement that was just made or an encounter you just had, that's all good too. And again, I'm fine with people using it to announce that they've logged in and saying hello, and others responding with a welcome.
nobody wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 8:39 pmThat being said, is talking about silly game-related things in the OOC channel out of bounds?
It's fine as long as it's about the game. My worry is less about the jokes and silly comments themselves (so long as they're related to the game), and more about the volume, I guess? The ratio of substance to silliness. I don't want OOC to be primarily distracting jokes and quips, even if game-related. I don't want people to start feeling like they need to turn off the channel because it's too distracting with silly stuff and there isn't enough relevant information to make it worth tuning in to, and then miss out on useful information they'd otherwise find useful or be interested in if they just didn't have to sift through all the chaff.

It's like when you search something up online, find a forum result with a thread title that seems to be exactly what you're looking for, but you have to scroll through all the posts of people trying to be clever or funny just to try and find the actual relevant information you're looking for. And to be clear: I don't think people in COGG specifically have been particularly bad about this. The COGG playerbase has been overall quite awesome. I'm just thinking about what kind of environment I want this chat channel to be, especially if it's going to be in-game.

At your suggestion, I'll see if I can write up some concise channel guidelines.
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nobody
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Re: In-game chat to be disabled

Post by nobody »

Rias wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:21 pm At your suggestion, I'll see if I can write up some concise channel guidelines.
I like the two paragraphs above this line (and the one before that) because they help clarify the intended scope and tone a lot. Honestly that may help more than a codified set of rules.
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Re: In-game chat to be disabled

Post by nobody »

I had two other thoughts about the chat this morning.

First, channel name suggestions: [Game] or [Community]

Second, I was thinking about the noise thing and was wondering if you could add a kind of social queue via color [Game, silent] is white and when there's been no chat for a while. [Game, quiet] is blue and when there is a small amount of chatter. [Game, audible] is green, more chatter; [Game, loud] is yellow when it's getting too disruptive; [Game, cacophonous] is red, and the chat text is colored like the molten metal. I'm thinking just the channel tag changes color until red (or yellow with yellow text too). It would be a very noticable que to reduce noise. For our players who use screen readers consider [Game, silent], [Game, quiet], [Game, #! audible], [Game, ##!!#! loud], and [Game, ##!!##!!#! cacophonous]. At the lounder levels it would be noticably annoying (I think). The toughest part would be calibrating it correctly (messages per minute and/or messages consistently over time and/or sensitivity to multiple longer messages). This might be a terrible idea, but it would be an automated reminder to not be too noisy on the channel, but also a thing that people could ignore easily enough if everyone thought it was a productive conversation.

Edit to add: might also work to have loud/yellow have the molten metal/warm color scheme on the chat text and have cacophonous/red have the horrid and hard-to-read rainbow color scheme on the chat text.
Acarin
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Re: In-game chat to be disabled

Post by Acarin »

I'm not sure that annoying people further is a solution to reduce the level of annoyance that the channel causes. It's an interesting idea but having a bunch of warnings that players see may not be the right solution. You could have chat just shut off for five minutes in warning if people are using it too much... so basically have that on the backend but not visible to players.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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