Value of Riln

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Talyn
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2020 5:54 pm

Value of Riln

Post by Talyn »

So, I wanted to write this discussion and hope that anyone who writes here can be civil on this topic. I know I can be Crude sometimes and that's not my intention. Anyways, the discussion here is what is the value of riln? It's player-driven but we also have an in-game market that sets the value of things. Do players overcharge items that are intended to be easier to purchase? Rias isn't an economic shark so I doubt he knows what's best to set all of his prices and numbers are intended to change throughout play. Players have been getting frustrated over prices, some believe items are to expensive, while others things it's just right. We'll go with coal as it's the newest addition to the game for crafters and sought out by many. Some people are selling for 10,000 riln. Myself thinks this is actually fairly priced seeing how, steel ingots can sell for 6,000 riln each (This is not Market value) which a single lump of coal can make 4 ingots (24,000 riln).

I know that players will pay greatly if they want it. That's economy, that's how it works a supply and demand system among players, but then why do we have a market? Should we value the market more on prices or completely ignore it? Because if we don't ignore it. A single steel ingot sells for 131 riln a piece. Meaning Coal will sell for even less or around the price. People have a ton of riln, riln sinks should be a thing, but where it to far. What are your thoughts on the matter? Should steel be something easily sought? I say no to this. I'm very VERY against steel being a common commodity, It's going to, because that's just how material works after so long players will accumulate enough that the playerbase can have it.

Another player was talking to me saying that it's a tool and stepping stone to end game or higher wanted metals as in Riversteel, sunsteel, ect. Some of these are not in game so right now end game at the moment *IS* steel. However, this does raise a bit of alarm when I think of it because if 4 ingots of steel is 24,000 riln (Purchased) and a Greatsword blade requires 4 ingots of steel to make...then that right there is going to indicate the greatsword is going to cost close to 40,000 riln at least It could go less, or it could go higher. This is just how my mind works when it comes to crafting. How difficult was the material to obtain, how long did it take me to make it, and so on.

To conclude, I know this topic has a lot of steel and coal at the moment, I personally think these prices are fair. High level or high skilled players have a great deal of riln and I am among the poorest of the top end players. If I was to guess the only way these prices would drop would be if more material of equivalent states came out. This is also my thoughts. I am but on person and I do not have final say or any say really. In truth, someone could just as easily go around selling things WAY cheaper than I think they should. Personally, I know many get frustrated at prices but it's also frustrating as a material gatherer to be shafted in prices because they don't realize how difficult something is or it doesn't have mechanical bonus instead of flavor. What's your thoughts? Think the market prices interfere with gauging item prices to much or not enough? Should we stay closer to market value or completely ignore it. Please keep in mind to remain civil amongst the community on the discussion. I greatly am curious of the playerbase's thoughts on this!
I'm Not Accepting Surrenders At This Time. I Want You To Know Failure, Utter Defeat, And That It Is I Who Delivers It Crashing Down Upon You.
-NotRias
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Maina
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 12:32 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Value of Riln

Post by Maina »

Personally, I think it's too early to have this discussion at all. The economy is going to need a top-down readjustment in near every respect before the game leaves beta. At present, it's simply impossible to price things beyond 'what people will pay for it'. Old characters have tons and tons of riln. Characters that are newer don't. People who don't play crafters often don't, either. The gap between people living the in-game equivalent of paycheck-to-paycheck and the multi-year characters sitting on fat stacks of riln is way too huge to balance prices around either group.

The economy is and will remain largely broken until we can take a fine-toothed comb to it top-to-bottom, and there are so many other things that need priority that there isn't much point in doing all that until the Crafter guild is put into place, or shortly before.

When that happens, Rias (probably with the input of others; honestly, I'd be okay with being a GM explicitly for the purposes of rebalancing the in-game economy if that would be helpful, and I'm sure others would make the same offer) will have to establish what he wants Riln to be worth and how fast he wants people to gain it, and then the entire game will need to have prices (both costs and pay for shops, market, and tasks) adjusted to account for that.

Until then, sell things for whatever price people will pay for. If you can't or won't pay for it, well... fortunately, most things can be obtained other ways.
Onasaki
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:20 pm

Re: Value of Riln

Post by Onasaki »

I read over this, and it seems like the big finger pointing right now is at how players overcharge, undercharge, or don't interact with the player economy at all. As someone who does a lot of math to make sure I don't cheat people (or that I cheat them enough so that I don't bankrupt them), I find the main problem is yes, there are no riln sinks. There's nothing to actually spend riln on, outside of supplies, food, and rent. This is not a player issue though.

So here's a thought: Why doesn't the bank charge banking fees? All players who use the bank would be charged, if they have X amount of riln in their bank (less then this amount would have no fees, probably increased based on a fraction of the amount.) I say specifically riln itself, because I know people use their bank vaults as like mini-houses, and charging based on items would be absurd at the moment.)

If people had more automatic bills to worry about, then the market prices would reflect this. And those older players with "stacks of riln" would then find themselves needing to make sure they regularly have riln coming in. Through various things.

The collective amount of money in the bank, too, could start having an effect on market prices on a town-by-town basis.

What could even be more interesting, is if towns had a specific amount of money they *needed* to retain in the city coffers. Then this collective amount could again, add another layer of economy to the fluxing market. If this number goes down too far, market prices go up. Across the board. With some discrepencies in between (maybe food, and really common stuff doesn't go up too much.).

And if the number goes up up up, then market prices will be too low and no one will be making a profit. And therefore not making money, and therefore not able to pay their bills.

As it stands, most regular bills people pay in this game is rent and stabling. Though admittedly, most people don't make use of the stables at all.

Having an extra layer of economic control that needs to be maintained otherwise the market itself will crash or slow, would fix a lot of problems.
I have two forces by my side,
One's the truth and one's a lie,
Which one's which I cannot tell,
This enigma is my hell.

Baako leads you over to the grass to graze.
Dennis
Posts: 218
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:46 am

Re: Value of Riln

Post by Dennis »

Baako, I'm sorry I came off as dismissive in our private messages. I agree with your sentiments in the context of your statements!

I do want to see, like others have pointed out, the economy get a fine tooth comb when there is time to look at it. It would be great if the surplus riln had somewhere to go to encourage balancing the different characters and playstyles. Until we get there I agree people will pay what they think is fair. There are people who will happily pay any riln asked to acquire a thing, while others will cap out at a quarter of that offer.
"Always remember that we are a community before anything else. Before being a 'game' or a 'world' we are a bunch of folk who get together to have fun."
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