Combat Zones - Feedback

Areas full of hostile baddies just itching for a fight, and ready for you to practice combat against.
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Fellborn
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Combat Zones - Feedback

Post by Fellborn »

Hello all,

As staff we're very well aware that to begin with that there is a large disparity in what a Warrior Guild character and a non-Warrior Guild character is capable of in combat, and finds enjoyable. We're also aware that there are currently holes in skill ranges for certain types of NPC creatures that people prefer to hunt. What we'd like and really appreciate, is feedback from a lot of people on zones that already exist in game so we can actually try and make content that a variety of people will enjoy as well as utilize. While we can see what areas are getting frequented the most at a given time, it doesn't answer questions as to why. Fun, too hard, need a group, no riln, zone not known about, too far away, and so forth.

Keeping this in mind, if people have comments about zones above the 100 skill range, we'd love to hear them. No need for anything lengthy, just keep it relevant. There are some powerful characters out there, and we don't need to know that you find Volmonks easy. If you don't want to share something specific, that is also fine.

As an example...

Warrior, Valeria New Quarter. Not worthwhile soloing now Redleaf is available.
Rogue, Wildhaven. Higher skill than them, but can't fill EXP bucket here without nearly dying. Stealth build. Find it *much* easier to hunt Blood Cultists instead.

Or go into further detail. I'm unsure about you all, but I've played a few games with zones that no one ever touched. We'd appreciate the feedback in keeping that to a minimum here.
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Bonehead
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Re: Combat Zones - Feedback

Post by Bonehead »

Physicker (Upper level Combat skills for a Physicker, Ranged Combat, Medium Armor) - I find enemies that can tackle or other knockdown stagger type moves to be difficult. While I find defeating such enemies as possible, if I'm trying to grind up a combat skill, it ends up not being worth the damage I'd take if I'm facing enemies like Blood Cultists. The Night Meadows are tricky, especially if the enemy has a short sword and gets a lucky armor chink in. Same with the Bandits at the Bandit camp. I hope this helps!
Wut?
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Talyn
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Re: Combat Zones - Feedback

Post by Talyn »

While I didn't use them to grind up since I didn't know where to find them until I was over their skill range. I loved fighting Volmonks, the way they fight are just really enjoyable. They reminded me of rakkans. The Ghouls in the sunken caverns are also another great zone. I'm not sure why, perhaps it was exploring something familiar but knowing there's new content in it. Such as finding the barricade no one ever opened (That I know of). Though combat to me, is enjoyable when the mobs have fun techniques or special abilities. I think when the shamblers mesmerized me for the first time I went into panic mod but it was still an enjoyable fight. The Marauders of Dusklamp kicking everyone's butt that goes there thinking oh it's just infested ALSO puts the fear of hey, mobs can be strong I need to be careful. Even at the highest skill range, those marauders can still put up a heck of a fight. That right there makes them the most memorable mob for Baako and myself at least. Since while challenging as they are, they're still kill able solo that is. I'm not sure what it is about the Marauders maybe it's when you start seeing combat maneuvers such as dirt kick and knock downs for the first time. Though I just always enjoyed fighting there. Since, back when mortal wounds were a thing, my heart would sink every time I was knocked down against a group of two or more. I knew I was going to die if I didn't quickly get up or crawl away. It only took one chink to get rid of me and for that I respected dusklamp. Who knows! maybe this makes me a masochist for it, I enjoy when mobs are challenging but not unkillable. I think that's why Baako would always go challenge things 100 to 200+ combat skill above him. Hopefully my rambling helps explain my views on it. I've enjoyed every combat zone, minus probably some of the netherim but that's because I hate having to switch weapon types for them, but that's more player preference then anything bad to say about the zone itself.
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Marcuson
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Re: Combat Zones - Feedback

Post by Marcuson »

For roleplay reasons, my character only sticks to areas with nethrim, monsters, or beasts. The following notes apply for a Duelist character with 300 Melee, 225 Acrobatics, and 300 Shield Use who fights with a rapier and a buckler.

Pirate's Cove (Waterlogged Sea-Ghouls): Though I don't earn experience from fighting them, I still like to go here by myself if my bucket is full. The mobs drop a decent bit of riln, are vulnerable to blades, and can be fought without thinking too hard about tactics. Plus, the area is pretty neat and thematically appropriate for me. Because of how out-of-the-way the area is, not many people come here, which is a plus if I'm just zoning out.

Lower Icewind Trail (Ice Wyrmlings): This is where I want to go when I want fairly quick experience gains and don't care about riln. I really enjoy fighting the mobs here just because of how disgusting their description is - killing them actually makes me feel like I'm making the world a better place. Not having to aim my attacks is also a boon. The constant cold, while challenging in other times of the year, doesn't matter so much right now since we're already dressed for winter. I'll go here alone often, and I'm comfortable fighting more than one wyrmling at a time.

Wildhaven Grove (Wolves): This area is annoying in a good way: it's confusingly laid out (I get lost every time I come here), and the forest and mists make it an ideal place for the wolves to ambush. They can easily gang up on me if I'm not careful. I'd never come here alone, and I wouldn't kill them without wanting to harvest their pelts. This area definitely presents an air of mystery, and I want to learn more about it.

Kaper River (Bears): I find bears challenging, and I'd never fight them alone nor fight them without the intention of taking their pelts. As long as I have someone along to be bait (sorry), I am just bear-ly comfortable fighting them one at a time. Their damage rolls and abilities are what make them especially scary. I'm having great fun cataloguing all of their pelt colors. The area's environment adds an interesting dimension to combat, with the river causing roundtime, and there are some fun environmental emotes here.

Redleaf Hills (Lost Squires): I enjoy these mobs a lot. I enjoy the design of all the mobs in Redleaf, actually, but the lost squires are the only ones I'd feel comfortable fighting on a regular basis. Their frequent use of class abilities means I really have to think about how I'm fighting them - I can't just autopilot. And Redleaf is a spooky place, too, with a lot of mist and tight corners. The mobs could show up from directions I wasn't expecting, forcing me to retreat if I wasn't prepared. I'll come here if I want to be challenged while also finding good riln and treasure. I won't fight more than one squire at a time. I still choose to fight with a rapier despite their armor; it's extremely satisfying to get those high-damage armor-chinks.
Laroremas
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Re: Combat Zones - Feedback

Post by Laroremas »

Here's some feedback about the footmen/vanguards in that one place I don't know the name of off of the top of my head.

1) Tackle is very good. Tackle is so good, I don't even like to fight more than one NPC that can tackle, because it is impossible to manage the enemy balance meters in a way that will allow you to keep both of them from eventually tackling you again. For some reason, Shield Bash and Shield Charge (and probably Tackle as well) when used by PCs does not reduce the amount of Balance that a NPC has (I'm like 90% sure of this but could definitely be wrong). While this isn't normally a problem if you're facing only one shambling undead cosplaying as a linebacker because you can use Feint, it has a cooldown.

2) Polearms (like poleaxe, polehammer, glaive) are VERY good. When combined with Blade Catch (I guess just Dreadnoughts in general), it REALLY makes me regret not rolling one up and choosing Guardian instead. The amount of damage that someone in plate takes when using Blade Catch is laughable, rendering the Dreadnought archetype all offense AND defense when you combine Blade Catch with the inherent reach that polearms have, the balance reduction AND potential to disarm. Shield Charge does not seem to ignore reach (I think it, and Tackle should reduce the chance to get fended, but I believe right now they just reduce the chance to get avoided?).

The number of times I have tried to Shield Charge a vanguard, only to hit it, its Stability procs, it loses no Balance because NPCs don't lose balance when they have a Balance reducing ability used on them into them IMMEDIATELY tackling me numbers about a dozen. It has gotten to the point where I run in, feint, and if the solo vanguard doesn't buy it, I run away and wait for it to come off of cooldown, otherwise I am eventually probably getting tackled or at the very least losing all of my balance. Combine this with potentially being staggered for eight more seconds after a particularly good swing from a polearm wielded by one of these monsters, and that is a potentially twenty-one seconds of disables (and this has happened to me) from one NPCs if I happen to get caught in roundtime when initially tackled. I imagine this is achievable by anyone who is a Dreadnought and has a little luck.

That said, the newest area is fun and challenging and requires a considerable amount of thought when compared to any other area I decided to level in. Note: I avoided ANY area with any NPCs that had some sort of disable or stun, discounting the cultists, as theirs ended when you're hit. I think moving forward, any areas level 35+ should probably include some kind of creature like the footmen or vanguards, as up until this point, it was not dangerous at all (as a Warrior).

Random side notes: pulling someone to their feet should induce roundtime based on the character's personal weight and if Strength is your main attribute. Teehee.
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Fellborn
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Re: Combat Zones - Feedback

Post by Fellborn »

Some useful feedback here, keep it up. Especially appreciate the detail.

It especially sounds like, for non-warriors, it might be useful to include a variety of mobs moving up that lack a knockdown, though may not pay out in terms of drops, at least up to non-warrior cap of 400.

How do people find zones more meant for groups (Northwest Valeria, Outside Hillside Fort) in terms of worth/reward in comparison to just hunting an easier zone in a group?
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Teri
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Re: Combat Zones - Feedback

Post by Teri »

As a treasure hunter with 400 ranged and 175 dodge, and the only active combat ability I use being dirt kick, I tend to only fight more squishy, less armoured and non-nethrim for solo combat. Skeleton defenders/dreads with 400 ranged isn't terrible with iron hammers/multi-throw and I still get exp, but I prefer fighting the cultists for being squishy/dirt kickable and the loot I can get.

Apart from the times I was guarded by warriors, I had an easier time training against anything I could dirt kick. I went vagrants/laborers/ then inner city/bandits with a mix of solo/group. Then Valeria with a group/being guarded and solo cultist fighting. I slowed around 300 ranged unless I was with a warrior in Valeria, and fighting cultists was slow at 300 for the risk, so for my last 100 training in ranged I hunted many lynxes for the skill gains, and as far as pelts/exp they don't run around as much like coyotes do. I tend to fight cultists the most often because of their perception/lack of armor, I'm able to take them out with any ranged weapons.
Skeletal defenders are easier with iron hammers, especially with multi-throw, but I didn't do much combat with them not knowing about the area for a while and I barely fought hill guardians, and I'll admit to being lazy and don't have to light up the cultists area. I didn't do any training in the cove at all, partially due to lighting/nethrim and lacking the knowledge of what weapons to use at the time.

I have not delved into Red Leaf Hills much apart from a few trips due to lack of time since it released. It isn't something I could solo without a lot of hit and run for the abilities they have. The fort bandits, excluding groups aren't terrible apart from the tackles if I set up carefully, and roll wise 400 ranged is fine in less crowded spots for some fighting for riln, but not if I want exp. For just the riln the Hillside Fort seemed good, and Red Leaf Hills lockbox contents seemed lucrative from Vanguard (not sure how much more since the recent zone changes.)

One other thing as far as not enjoying group fighting is honestly carrying the riln. Unless I have someone volunteering to be a mule or guard me, the careful balance of encumbrance of 1-2 vs over 2 is a slim margin, and most times I would prefer not to be given any riln at all. I often just throw the riln at someone, or on the ground because I'd rather have fun fighting instead of losing access to an ability or dying. My character often offers a cut of riln to someone to carry it if I take the time to ask. I'm not using a quiver for hurled weapons, so closing my bags so the riln drops to the ground isn't an option as far as that goes. I would love the ability to opt out of riln share in a group, but throwing it on the ground or rp solutions are amusing.

I do fight the wolves occasionally because the pelts and them roaming and need to use perception is neat! and they don't have well tackle or something to mess up balance, and again, squishy. I'm only fighting them for pelts, not exp, and same for hunting bears. I can fight the bears as long as I'm careful to run if they spot me, and avoid placement where two come across me. I don't wish to get grappled by one again. I didn't go much against Volmunks because they roam around a lot, (and if I recall correctly their corpses can't be dragged) so for solo hunting trying to skin was too much of a pain, even with a second person around. Compared to that of wolf corpses/wyrmlings which could be dragged outside to a safe spot in the wild to skin.
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Fellborn
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Re: Combat Zones - Feedback

Post by Fellborn »

Teri wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:48 pm One other thing as far as not enjoying group fighting is honestly carrying the riln. Unless I have someone volunteering to be a mule or guard me, the careful balance of encumbrance of 1-2 vs over 2 is a slim margin, and most times I would prefer not to be given any riln at all. I often just throw the riln at someone, or on the ground because I'd rather have fun fighting instead of losing access to an ability or dying. My character often offers a cut of riln to someone to carry it if I take the time to ask. I'm not using a quiver for hurled weapons, so closing my bags so the riln drops to the ground isn't an option as far as that goes. I would love the ability to opt out of riln share in a group, but throwing it on the ground or rp solutions are amusing.
If not for riln then, what would be an incentive to group hunt?
Onasaki
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Re: Combat Zones - Feedback

Post by Onasaki »

Fancy loot, comes to mind. Like resources, or rare commodities that we can't get anywhere else. Lockboxes are cool, but they tend to be hoarded, or hard to get open when there's not a regular locksmith availible who can bust those high level locks.

As a Nightblade with only 170 in melee, 125 dodge, I don't actually do much group combat because there's no real way to capitalize on my nightblade abilities (like mark for instance) without being solo. I still do group stuff and enjoy it, but like... in a party of like 20 people with a fraction of the riln being split among that is usually not a lot (I think I get maybe 10-20 riln per kill, if it's not a group of mobs?) Riln tends to be useless to gather, and the biggest payouts tend to be the lockboxes that get split. If they get split in the first place. Otherwise I gain it solely through crafting, or soloing.

We need more tangible loot. I'm not saying the weapons and armor the mobs have need to be worth something, but having SOMETHING other then riln or lockboxes to gain, might help groups.
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Fellborn
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Re: Combat Zones - Feedback

Post by Fellborn »

Onasaki wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:42 am Fancy loot, comes to mind. Like resources, or rare commodities that we can't get anywhere else. Lockboxes are cool, but they tend to be hoarded, or hard to get open when there's not a regular locksmith availible who can bust those high level locks.

As a Nightblade with only 170 in melee, 125 dodge, I don't actually do much group combat because there's no real way to capitalize on my nightblade abilities (like mark for instance) without being solo. I still do group stuff and enjoy it, but like... in a party of like 20 people with a fraction of the riln being split among that is usually not a lot (I think I get maybe 10-20 riln per kill, if it's not a group of mobs?) Riln tends to be useless to gather, and the biggest payouts tend to be the lockboxes that get split. If they get split in the first place. Otherwise I gain it solely through crafting, or soloing.

We need more tangible loot. I'm not saying the weapons and armor the mobs have need to be worth something, but having SOMETHING other then riln or lockboxes to gain, might help groups.
I am curious if these riln comments are based off the recent adjustments to "intended" group riln drops, or prior? Current zone that are designed a little more around groups in terms of riln, see between 20-60% better average riln compared to like level mobs. That's quite a significant jump considering how fast these groups rack up kills.

As for content balanced in terms of reward for groups of 20 people, while there may eventually be mechanics changes behind the scenes to help with this, I still wouldn't expect to see anything like that.
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