Tactics: Guardian and Guarding

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Talyn
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Tactics: Guardian and Guarding

Post by Talyn »

Hello, I'm not a Guardian but I'm making this post becuase of what I was watching. Granted, it could just be that the area was slightly more difficult but, Deric the Guardian was guarding Leandri the Physicker while in Dusklamp. While fighting I was watching Deric intercept attacks but they attack still went off on normal. It wasn't an attack or even dealt to Deric instead.

Trying to find out if that is intended or not I started reading up on Tactics: Guardian which says "A tactic granting a passive chance to intercept attacks on all group members, a chance to counterattack when blocking or parrying, and increased defenses at a slight penalty to offense." My second thought was to check if there was a helpfile about guarding or even blocking and there's not. Only help Combat which tells you about the second defense which is block. it affects balance, weight, and so forth.

I'm not sure if it's intended to show that Target one who is guarding target two intercepts the attacks coming at target two but the attack goes off as normal is intended but it's rather confusing in combat, and if there's a hidden roll that is done for a target to intercept the attack maybe when it says (target one) intercepts attack on (target two) could we perhaps have the roll shown next to that or if it fails don't show at all? it would help those with it in combat I feel.

Lastly my last comment is if guarding can't already block special techniques like dirt kick or tackle could guardians get an ability that can attempt to intercept them already. Guardians are already designed to be the tank of many groups but they seem lack luster in abilities to really do anything like that. Even a few bolster ideas to buff the group would be handy as well.
I'm Not Accepting Surrenders At This Time. I Want You To Know Failure, Utter Defeat, And That It Is I Who Delivers It Crashing Down Upon You.
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Acarin
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Re: Tactics: Guardian and Guarding

Post by Acarin »

I would find it very odd if guardians were able to intercept things like tackle, sweep, dirtkick or follow-up attacks. The reason is really around timing.

Guardians would need to check against artifice for dirtkick and some of the follow-ups in order to recognize that these attacks were coming and then wouldn't necessarily have time to react (same reason they shouldn't be able to guard against stealth attacks they don't see). For sweep and tackle, there is momentum (tackle or a charge) or a low attack likely out of blocking range associated with these and I can't see a guardian getting between the attacker and target in time... unless they just end up taking the hit.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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Talyn
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Re: Tactics: Guardian and Guarding

Post by Talyn »

Okay sure, but when the echo says So and so intercepts attack on other person. It's a bit confusing in the text. Like you're attempting to intercept that attack anyways. You're guarding that person from attacks and techniques. Though the combat is still a little clunky, mobs still go around you to go after people from range..almost like in their coding is to move within range 0. They'll not entirely ignore you but they definitely will move passed you more often to try and get everyone into melee range. Not a bad tactic really but when you're guarding someone you should cut them off. Guarding should have more of a benefit to it..you're literally trying to protect them with your life but mobs just go around you like you're not even there. I could agree that maybe not guarding against dirt kick since you need artifice against it but Guard needs a little bit of oomph behind it or it feels not worth it. Taunt or something to keep mobs focused on the guardian. Else you're not really a guardian...you're just a heavy person in armor standing there.

There are some techniques with a bit of practice might work but from what I've read and heard from the guardian player is still buggy like charging from a ranged position when the ability says works better further away. If they move towards the person in the back row you could charge them but that doesn't work.
I'm Not Accepting Surrenders At This Time. I Want You To Know Failure, Utter Defeat, And That It Is I Who Delivers It Crashing Down Upon You.
-NotRias
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Rias
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Re: Tactics: Guardian and Guarding

Post by Rias »

Guarding currently works against any attack that requires a melee approach, which includes maneuvers like dirtkick or tackle or sweep. Adding some modifiers to make some moves less likely to be guarded against would be nice, but for the time being it all works on the same calculation which is only very lightly skill-based. It favors the one doing the guarding in the interest of making the guard mechanic worthwhile, born of my experiences in other games where guarding someone was little more than a RNG crapshoot on whether it did anything or not. Disabler effects (mesmerized, rooted, staggered, unconscious, etc.) do prevent a guard from guarding, as do the sitting and prone positions.

The "Bob intercepts an attack" messaging should only show when an actual intercept is happening. Failed intercepts don't show any messaging at all about the intercept attempt. It sounds like you're experiencing some kind of bug. I've tried to reproduce the issue, but so far all the guarding attempts appear to be working correctly for me in all of first-, second-, and third-person perspectives. I'll keep trying to think of what might be messing it up in your situation, but if you can pin down any specific circumstances or details, please let me know.
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Umbra
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2021 1:02 am

Re: Tactics: Guardian and Guarding

Post by Umbra »

Thanks Rias, it was likely the stagger
Acarin
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Re: Tactics: Guardian and Guarding

Post by Acarin »

Does guarding work while surprised? Does guarding work against stealth right now? If so, is there a stealth versus perception check?
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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Talyn
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Re: Tactics: Guardian and Guarding

Post by Talyn »

I wish I had logged the situation. I'll see if Umbra has the log, but there was several times in the encounter in Dusklamp where I saw Deric intercepts the attack and the attack still made it through, whether it be a normal attack and techniques like dirt kick and tackle. I don't know if he was staggered or not but the command Deric intercepts popped up even though it failed. If it works not awesome, I'm sure we'll give it a test tomorrow. If anything pops up I'll let you know
I'm Not Accepting Surrenders At This Time. I Want You To Know Failure, Utter Defeat, And That It Is I Who Delivers It Crashing Down Upon You.
-NotRias
Umbra
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Re: Tactics: Guardian and Guarding

Post by Umbra »

I didn't log it no but can always go back to do so, also sounds like a good ability idea for Guardian to have improved intercept chance and such
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