Berserker feedback and ideas

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stratcat
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Berserker feedback and ideas

Post by stratcat »

Hi!

I'm new to COGG. I might be horribly misguided in my suggestions. I might be missing something. Don't hesitate to point that out if it happens!

I took up the 'serker. I've played around a bit with rage and flurry, which seem to be the cornerstone of the class currently. Flurry is somewhat useful by itself, but it feels like these two things don't do enough to make berserkers unique. I'm trying to find some interesting playstyle here, and struggling.

Another complaint is that fury is pretty hard to generate right now. Dodge, parry and miss a lot, and it will drain rather quickly. I don't often get to use my flurry when hunting mobs. The fights just end too quickly, and then I lose fury while looking for the next foe...

One idea I had is this! Give the 'serker the ability to completely ditch defenses: blocking, parrying, dodging, all of it. Embrace the hurt. Embrace they'll end up in the infirmary a lot. But, through sheer WILLPOWER (I know, I know) and ADRENALINE, the energy loss from the hurt is significantly diminished... until the battle is over. The mad cunt sure is bleeding, but just won't die. What does this do? Well... now we can talk about building up fury.

I'm not sure if there'd have to be something extra to help the 'serker deal with the wounds. I kind of like the idea of them having to rely extra hard on healers, and frequently experiencing the low that comes after the high of battle. Also, "high risk high reward" sounds about right for the class, doesn't it? As does recklessly toeing the line with death.

And then, something multi-target to spend fury on? Or maybe make Cleaving Blow consume a bit and benefit from it?

What do you all think?
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Rias
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Re: Berserker feedback and ideas

Post by Rias »

I like the idea of making the trade of taking more hits to generate more fury and get more out of that somehow. Some additional fury-spender moves with lower roundtimes but high fury costs might be a cool way to say build up the fury, then unleash a bunch of attacks. Also do note that fury goes toward the Strength stat, which in turn will cause you to do a bit more damage while nice and furious.

Another idea is the classic berserk mode, where you get to a certain point and you just start automatically attacking the heck out of anything nearby with increased speed and power until the rage wears off. Probably with a decent cooldown period, so you don't feel like you should never spend your fury on active moves because you'd rather save it up for the berserk. Maybe cause a bit of Insanity. And of course, sometimes it might trigger automatically without the berserker intending it to, the worse your sanity is. So the more you utilize it, the more likely you're going to find yourself "stuck" in that state. I'm not sure how well it'd work in practice, but it does sound fun.

I'll look into fury generation and think about additional ways to build it up so it can be used more often and feel more like an important part of the Berserker combat dynamic. And yeah, I do like the idea of Berserkers typically taking more hits and being often seen covered in cuts and blood and whatnot. Part of the package, right? Some kind of pain suppression thing would work well for them, like you were saying with the possible decreased energy when from taking hits. The idea of a Berserker just refusing to go down despite normally-mortal wounds, collapsing only after the opponent has been bested, is also awesome to envision. Not to say they'd be immune to death - there'd be limits of course, but I'd love to find a balanced way to make it work.

Happy to hear more ideas if anyone has them. I'd love to develop Berserkers some more and get them really into their feel. I've typically not been much into whole the berserker/barbarian schtick, so feedback and suggestions are extra helpful here. I appreciate the post, it's given me a lot to work with!
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stratcat
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Re: Berserker feedback and ideas

Post by stratcat »

Ha. I had that mental image in my head too, with dropping unconscious after battle. If you're planning to work yourself that hard, you'd better have friends to collect you after.

"Berserk mode" and insanity sound great. I guess "anything nearby" potentially involves allies, too, if they're in melee range against the same mobs? That'd make it a bit more situational, which is fine! Maybe it would really just mean the berserker's ally would have to get out of the way for a bit, let them do their thing, and then move back in to cover for that dumb exhausted brute.

I definitely like the idea of there being high stakes involved, be it insanity or bleeding out. But I might be biased since it works beautifully with the character concept I have. It'd be great to hear other voices.
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Talyn
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Re: Berserker feedback and ideas

Post by Talyn »

So, thought I'd post here. I'm new to COGG as well, though I'm not new to RP. Not that you have to play like I do, but I love my Berserker after I made him. The Faewyr are one of my favorite races, and they give me a very big Viking vibe to him as do the Berserkers they're not barbarians they feel more like Viking..Rangers with/if they go Druidry. Sword and board with him and he just shield bashes everything in the face. As for Fury, I haven't really seen a good use for it, however, I also don't have Flurry yet. I do know that after I get 20-25 Fury, I think I saw one combat reroll advantage. I think? With that said, I would really love to see a Demoralizing war cry from them maybe? Like spend 10-15 Fury to let out a rage filled shout that maybe staggers or demoralizes the enemy giving them disadvantage rerolls? Just a suggestion, but with the rest of their CC abilities it's not really needed, more flavor I guess
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Xandrea
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Re: Berserker feedback and ideas

Post by Xandrea »

I've played a good bit of berserker. They were my first lv.20. I've rarely had many issues with generating rage. Mostly cause I only use rage spending abilities on enemies that don't go down in a few hits. Kind've like I'm a boss in 2nd stage. Being temporarily indomitable sounds amazing. Especially in the context of trying to kill something when it thinks it has you. Attacking friendlies I don't think is a good idea though. Teamwork is going to be super important late game and I could see berserkers getting excluded from hunting parties for fear of my Berserker accidentally one-shotting them. (A full damage hit from a warhammer and Str attribute is second only to deleting whatever limb it hits)

Touching on the sanity piece. That could be the cost of living past death itself in the moment. Especially if you're already toting mortal wounds. I think it would be interesting to allow berserkers to stay living with mortal wounds but, only until their sanity hits -5. It puts a hardcapped time limit on how long they can fight and has a cost that would require downtime to recover from. Especially if they can't find a physic with mental skills.

The only reason I find hitting allies to be too much is because not everyone is going to be undying and I couldn't live with myself knowing I dealt the killing blow of someone's only life.
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Talyn
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Re: Berserker feedback and ideas

Post by Talyn »

So, I've been playing a Berserker for a little while. While I don't have all the abilities, I have a good portion of them that fits the playstyle of the character I want. (Not including druidry stuff that I have to find and haven't yet). However, as a Berserker in general I don't feel rage worthy. A berserker isn't a barbarian, just a warrior who fights in a trance like fury. The modern English word berserk (meaning "furiously violent or out of control"). In a cooperative game I wouldn't want to go out of control and hit an ally but I would love to see more Rage like abilities.

Fury as I think was stated makes the Berserker hit harder at the loss of defense. Although I've had many fights where my Fury was at 25 (Max) and I saw no difference. If you crit, it's usually a kill to a mob that doesn't have armor. Even with armor it's so hard to tell if you actually are getting a bonus or not. (It's the same issue I have with Mighty Blow, amazing ability when it hits and rolls high because you're deleting a mob or a limb from the target with a decent weapon. However, if that ability rolls low then you clearly miss or scratch the target. It should miss but it's still amusing that you blow all your balance for this strike to scratch the target.)

I kinda would love Fury to instead of hitting hard gives the berserkers a higher chance to hit the target, crits are already potent enough to get the job done, but if the Fury resource is intended on being this way perhaps making it where our techniques like shield bash and tackle builds fury would be pretty beneficial for the berserker as well. When you're in a fight, even with a group and you're barely missing the mark to hit the target and not building up Fury kinda is tough, but you're able to hit with techniques. I get it's the luck of RNG at times, but that fury build up would be nice.

I've also been trying to see how the Berserker fits in, Dreadnoughts hit like a freight train, Guardians are super tanky, Marauders get dirty tricks and a few other new stuff, Duelist are finesse, and nightblades are stealthy Right now the Berserker feels like a jack-of-all trades. Perhaps that's just how I'm playing mine. I can use nice weapons, I can use a shield, I can bash people in the face with said shield, I can CC with some stagger and knockdowns, and if I go Druidry (Like I did) I can do a few fancy things like heal myself over time. Being a middle man isn't really a bad thing but a few cool abilities I thought, would be:

Stunning Roar: The Berserker uses his blood filled Fury to give a shout that releases the berserker's anger in a stunning cry. (Could stagger or stun the target for a time causing them to stand in a chilled/intimidated fear) Requires 5-10 Fury

Leaping Strike: The Berserker takes a running charge and leap at the enemy bringing their weapon down on the target. The Berserker moves from the furthest range of combat to adjacent making an attack. -5 balance and can only be used at range.

Lastly, Tenacity: Works like Inner Strength but gives Constitution. A Berserker is renown not only for dishing damage but receiving it and going on.
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Lexx416
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Re: Berserker feedback and ideas

Post by Lexx416 »

I've been playing a berserker for a few days, up to level 5 so far, and so far it's been really fun. I don't have the fury-spending ability quite yet, mostly because I've had great success using staggering blow combined with stealth, as well as making use of Vitality.

My tactics currently consist of: Stalk the target, Circle, Stunning Blow, Feint, Circle, Stunning Blow, Feint, Stunning blow, etc. until the target is dead. I picked up Mighty Blow to help end fights a little faster, and that's also been working pretty well. I think for the most part my strategy as a berserker can probably carry me all the way to Wechuge fairly easily, but I had a few ideas I wanted to post up regarding berserkers, that could make them more interesting and fun by offering viable alternatives to "stagger everything until it dies". I also think it'd be good for berserkers (and probably all warrior classes, if not most other classes in general!) to have more "ability trees" that get better the further you go, requiring an investment and thoughtful choice for the 30 total abilities we have at level 100.

Here's a few examples of things that I think would be fun to utilize as a berserker - presented in "skill tree" format (IE, one ability leads to another), though I think the concepts and ideas listed here could be separated out from one another as well.


Furious Focus
Pre-Req: Tactics Fury.

Furious Fighter would increase the Fury cap (I'd probably increase it between 5 and 15, personally, probably leaning closer to an additional 15 fury). While above 20 fury, balance has less of a negative impact on berserkers, and attacks take slightly less energy to perform.

Unyielding Fury
Pre-Req: Tactics Fury, Furious Focus

A berserker is not unstoppable, but they should be able to keep going, even when most other things would drop. This would grant minor damage resistances when above a certain level of fury, as well as increase the wound threshold to make a berserker bleed out while at that level of fury or higher. This would also come with an additional command (perhaps RAGE or something along those lines), which when activated would start to hemorrhage fury faster, while allowing a Berserker to keep fighting well past the point of exhaustion. I'd personally allow it to take them into negative energy to a point, and as soon as all fury disappears, the berserker would drop unconscious, with a timer based on how far below Exhausted they went. Dropping out of a state of Unyielding Fury should automatically remove you from stealth (so you can't hide from the consequences of this power).


Berserkergang
Pre-Req: Tactics Fury, Furious Focus, Unyielding Fury

Berserkergang would essentially be the capstone of the "rage" tree, reducing energy loss from wounds and attacks while above 20 or 25 Fury, and increasing accuracy in melee with every point of fury above 0. However, every time a berserker generates fury from taking a hit past that point, there's a small chance of slipping into an uncontrolled rage, causing them lose Fury at a MUCH faster rate when outside of a battle, but also causing them to attack any and all NPCs and Players in a room (also causing random movement to trigger every 10 seconds or so, to prevent people from just turtling to avoid the downsides). At max fury (say, between 30 and 40 depending on how much Furious Focus increases the cap), has a much higher chance of triggering the Berskergang, thus creating a more dynamic action economy in which it's incentivized to both spend and generate



The Grapple and Throw abilities could, admittedly, be either Generic Warrior abilities that different classes get "specialities" in a la tactical dodge, or shared between Berserkers and some of the other warrior classes (I think dreadnoughts and marauders personally), with Stone Hands being a special Berserker Thing. Meant to enhance unarmed combat, but not act as a replacement for a weapon. Great for non-lethal situations, or when you're caught without a weapon, or if you just wanna prove yourself.

Grappling Ability
Pre-Req: Tactics Appropriate to the Class

This would allow for a berserker to Pin and Grab opponents. I'm not EXACTLY sure what the Pinned or Grappled condition should do, but I think some good starting places would be: the target can't take any actions except to try to ESCAPE (but neither can the Grappler, with a couple of specific exceptions), the Target and the Initiator drain balance every tick (and CAN go negative, with the target draining faster), the target takes negative rerolls on Dodge and Block, can't parry, but the Grappler also has a lowered dodge roll.

Throwing Ability
Pre-Requisite: Tactics, and Grappling

This would let someone try to throw someone to the ground, causing damage and stagger based on the ENVIRONMENT they're in (which sounds like an awesome Marauder thing too, for sure). If you have someone GRAPPLED, you get positive rerolls on this attack.

If you're under the effects of Fury, you can instead MIGHTY THROW or MTHROW a target, which causes them to be thrown OUT of the room, at the cost of Fury. If you're under the influence of INNER STRENGTH or have the STRENGTH attribute, I'd also love to be able to use this to throw large objects. Something about picking up a log and chucking it at someone sounds fun, even if it wasn't super effective.|

Bonus points if we can throw PCs/NPCs AT other people.

Stone Hands

Pre-Requisite: Tactics, Grappling, Throwing

This is the "Capstone" of the "unarmed berserker" tree I had in my mind. Stone Hands would either increase the damage done with unarmed strikes, or upgrade the damage type to CRUSHING. Wearing armored objects above the Light category on Hands and Feet would increase the damage numbers (while causing the items to degrade faster), with harder materials hurting more.

Additionally (and the crux of where I got the idea for Stone Hands), it would allow for a Berserker to use Staggering Blow and Mighty Blow unarmed but with an increased timer of 10rt each.
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Lexx416
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Re: Berserker feedback and ideas

Post by Lexx416 »

It'd be nice to have an ability that exchanged fury for balance for berserkers! Maybe a Stance that eats all of your fury at once, in exchange for a 2:1 or 3:1 fury to balance ratio, rounding down (24 fury would net you the most, at either 12 or 8 balance), with a cooldown of 120 seconds or so.
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Navi
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Re: Berserker feedback and ideas

Post by Navi »

It's a pretty interesting and fun specialization. It's the first time I have gone for a play style that didn't heavily use armor chinks and light weaponry for quick kills. Combat feels alright, but seems to be lacking some extra oomf you would expect from this sort of play style. The core mechanic of fury is pretty neat, and it can get pretty insane when combined with mighty blow. Building up fury to a level that it can be felt in the damage output is pretty easy, and having it at the max is just scary. However, the primary benefit I'm getting from fury is from the damage bonus. No complaints, but flurry is one of those things I don't use because it's often overkill and would leave me without the damage bonus going into the next target. Many times I have used it only to have the second blow not even matter because the target died on the first hit. If it carried over onto another target, it would be more attractive I think. I don't use it to start fights usually because I don't have enough fury, or because tackle and staggering blow are more appealing to me. It's fun when I remember I have it and am getting ready to head back to town, but often times I'm better off just utilizing staggering blow with well-timed circle and mighty blows. While it is nice to have some fury at the start of a fight, it might be a good opportunity to play up the fury mechanics a little more and spend some of that left over fury at the start.

I would love to see a really nice opening move, so something with a cooldown of at least 30 seconds, to spend all my fury on left over from a previous fight. Something that makes it easier to break through someone's reach and deliver a blow with additional effects depending on the amount of fury spent. I'm thinking the minimum fury required would just need to be 1. So successes with 1 to 10 fury would stagger the target similar to staggering blow. With fury 11 to 15, the target is knocked down and staggered as with a normal tackle. With fury 16 to 20 the target is tackled, staggered, and a second attack is made at %75 of normal damage. At fury 21+ the target is knocked down, staggered, and a second attack is made at 100%. Depending on how much fury is spent will determine how much energy is consumed with a factor of 3. 10 fury, 30 energy.

At its weakest it's just a little more effective staggering blow because you're trading that damage bonus for an attack that has a better chance of bypassing their reach. Some damage is better than no damage. At its strongest this ability would let the berserker shine in prolonged combat engagements. I can't really think of a way to restrict this move to only be used at the start of combat, it's just the context this ability would make the most sense to me. The cooldown would at least insure that it isn't being used more than once per fight hopefully. Thanks for reading! Feedback is always welcome.
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Lexx416
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Re: Berserker feedback and ideas

Post by Lexx416 »

Vicious Focus

Gives the Berserker offensive rerolls (a base of 1 reroll, plus a chance at additional rerolls based on total fury) on attacks against targets that have hit them within the last X seconds (probably 10-15 seconds or so; enough time to get 1-3 attacks in depending on how you attack.


I think that's a good baseline for an ability; it feels a little light still, so I might also add something like rerolls to resisting mesmerizes for the duration that Vicious Focus' offensive rerolls are active, too.
"You hear the Woses, the Wild Men of the Woods... Remnants of an older time they be, living few and secretly, wild and wary as beasts."
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