Guild Points brainstorm requested

General discussion of Guilds that doesn't fit into the other forums.
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Rias
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Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Rias »

Guild points have been brought up a few times now, likely from those who were used to them from previous works. They don't exist here at the moment, but I'd like to implement them. I'm not sure what they'd be used for, but I do know people enjoy having more things to grind, so if anyone has any ideas as to what to use them for, let me know.

I do know that I specifically don't want them to work as an alternative to currency in guild shops or for training, because I don't want to devalue riln when many people are already claiming they don't have much use for the stuff. Skill training in particular is one of the few longer-term riln sinks, and I do not want to provide ways to bypass that.
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nobody
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

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It isn't pretty or exciting, but having abilities require a specific amount of guild points (or guild rank) to be acquired, or adding some additional tier effects based on guild points/guild ranks.

Beyond that, maybe there are some cosmetic things that could be tied to guild points. Getting a guild insignia stitched onto an article of clothing, or scorched/etched/painted on wood or metal objects, or dyes in guild colors (which might tread a bit too close into the guild points as riln area) all come to mind. Maybe even guild specific tattoos - which speaking of that, tangential lore questions:
  • If an undying gets a tattoo and dies, does the new body have that tattoo or is that not a permanent / incarnate enough thing that it would be part of the new body?
  • If no on tattoos, what about scars? Would old scars be carried over, but not new scars?
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Rias
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Rias »

I like the idea of getting an updatable guild insignia of some kind based on guild rank. A way to show off for people who are into that kind of thing. Could have various options: tattoo, patch, a banner that you could hang in your inn room or bank vault (or just carry around with you), tabard, put it on your shield ... No mechanical effect or anything, but it would be neat. Or heck, maybe a minor usable-every-so-often sort of "pride in your achievements" effect to give you a little morale boost. And of course if you try to use someone else's, you get morale loss instead - guilt at stolen valor and all that.

Having some services, shops, and abilities require X guild rank could work, I think. I know a fair number of people who liked that in "the other game".

(Scars and tats do persist across Undying deaths)
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TheCacklackian
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by TheCacklackian »

I do think if Guild Points are going to be included here, they should be less intrusive than they were in 'that other game'. Some guilds there could only get abilities if they grinded for days and days with tasks that gave barely any guild points. I think if they are to be added here, there should also be a fair way of earning them via roleplay and not just task grinding.

While not inherently against abilities being tied to guild points/ranks, if you make them as time consuming to earn as they are in the other game, it's going to just make another thing that people are forced to grind out.

Cosmetics-No real issue with guild points being linked to cosmetics.
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Rias »

When it comes to a grind, I always try to find a balance where you can get that feeling of satisfaction at time and effort without feeling overwhelmed by tedium. It's good to have player perspectives and feedback, so I'll count on you all to give constructive feedback as things get implemented. Tasks in "the other game" never did get to a point where I felt satisfied with them as a complete whole. Some were better than others. Some guilds were frankly in a terrible state when it came to tasks and guild-point earning. I'm saying this to let you know that I'm aware there were issues there.

I do think we're already in a much better place simply by virtue of being able to choose from a list of tasks and not having to deal with the ones you don't want to do, as well as being able to see what exactly a task will entail before choosing whether to accept it. No more "I'm usually happy to do culling tasks, but this one has me going to the opposite end of the map and I wish I'd never taken it."
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Navi
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Navi »

Guild points should represent how much time the character has dedicated to their actual guild, and not any particular prowess with the guild's skills/abilities. It stands to reason that more advanced tasks might not be given to someone just starting out, so this in itself could be a way to employ guild points. The higher your rank or guild point total, the more advance tasks are available. More advanced tasks could provide a bit more riln or even other rewards,but not more guild points. Some additional rewards could include healing salves, lockpicks, instant exp bonuses, and morale boosts.
As time goes on, your guild point total could decrease if you're inactive for a length of time. It doesn't make sense that someone who reaches lofty heights to suddenly stop their services to the guild, and then expect that guild to treat you as if nothing happened. This could make it possible for individuals to really compete with the cosmetic ranking that was discussed in the previous posts. Just for sake of example, someone who reaches the rank of captain takes a break from the game for a few months. Another player who just started might be considered a private or squire or something. When the captain returns, their rank might be reduce to knight, while in that same period of time that once new player is now a captain. There should be certain floor statuses for different ranks, I.E. captains could never be dropped below knight. These statuses could provide additional equipment or services. These would not accept guild points as currency, they would just unlock them, and require riln to use. I really like the idea of having some sort of recognition via cosmetic items, but if the decrease in rank is something that is implemented, they should have them forcibly removed or replaced upon their arrival at the guild location.
I don't really like the idea of locking guild abilities behind ranks. However, I would not be aposed to the system where each rank granted a promotion point, which allowed you to select one new ability from the guild, rather than the system where guild ability X is locked behind guild rank Y. This would allow players to build their characters the way they want, without requiring them to grind for ranks.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
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Can you hear me through the silence?
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Rias »

I think it would make sense to potentially have some abilities requiring a certain guild rank. Signing up and walking in on day one, I wouldn't expect to have full access to an organization's most specialized knowledge, nor access to training in their most advanced techniques (or being considered worthy of the time of their most advanced trainers).
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Navi
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Navi »

I don't have a really detailed understanding of every guild ability out there, but there weren't any that I saw to be extremely good, or by themselves more powerful than the rest. They seemed to have an equal effectiveness. If guild abilities are locked behind guild ranks, then the player is forced to grind those skills associated with the early ranks, which isn't really a bad thing, but it takes away a lot of the freedom the game offers. For example, if I made a duelist, and I wanted them to be primarily focused on acrobatics, but the first guild ability I could take after tactics duelist is quick strike, it means I should be focused on melee instead. Of course, I could still put my points into acrobatics, but then I'm forced to withhold my ability point until my rank is achieved, thus reducing my effectiveness as a duelist. If there are certain iconic abilities that each guild is known for, then I could see that being something put behind guild ranks. The fact that some abilities are required for other abilities is already sort of a gate to preventing someone from taking the most powerful abilities right at the start, not to mention the skills and stats required.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
Navi
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Navi »

I understand the idea that on day one you shouldn't be given access to everything. However, this isn't really how things work. If someone goes to training for being an officer in the army, then that person is usually granted that title upon entering the military. They don't have to be a private. If someone studies and practices music day in and day out for 10 years, they don't need to be a groupie to be in a band. My point is, if the individual has put in the effort to gain the skills and experience to do something, why wouldn't the organization put in just as much effort into training them.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
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Rias
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Re: Guild Points brainstorm requested

Post by Rias »

I feel it may be worth repeating that I said "it would make sense to potentially have some abilities requiring a certain guild rank", emphasis added to the words "potentially" and "some". I'm not intending to attach every ability to a guild rank. I don't have any particular abilities in mind at the moment that would qualify, but I believe the concept of having some abilities require a certain rank has merit.

I know next to nothing about how the military works in the real world (I also wouldn't compare these guilds to a government-run military program), but were I to run a guild such as the ones in the game, I would reserve the right to restrict access to my most specialized training programs until a particular member had the chance to prove themselves, regardless of assessment of their general aptitude upon joining the organization. If they're on a higher skill level than others when they join, they'll no doubt advance more quickly.
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