[Spoiler Alert] Hidden Druid Ability Discussion - Claws

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Lexx416
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[Spoiler Alert] Hidden Druid Ability Discussion - Claws

Post by Lexx416 »

This is a thread to discuss one of the hidden druidic abilities! I'm going to start a couple of these threads as I think of things to write regarding the specific abilities, and I'd ask that anyone that takes part in the discourse please follow a couple of points of etiquette to help avoid spoiling too much of the ability, especially the location it's found.
  • Please don't discuss the location of the ability specifically - Rias has asked to keep that information OOCly quiet.
  • Please don't discuss the flavor text of the ability specifically
  • Please don't give the IC name of the ability

This specific thread is for the icy claws power that Druids can learn.

So, I think this power is pretty neat. I think it's situationally useful while being spooky and impressive looking, but I think it'd be cooler if each of the 3 Druidic classes had bonuses that made the claws a little more unique (rather than scaling up the power, directly, of an ability that can feel a little mechanically lackluster at times).

For Rangers, I'd have them further improve the climbing bonus that claws give, perhaps by giving them a reroll on Climb checks, or decreased Climbing RT. For Primalists, I'd probably do something like making their claws effectively "Sharpened" (with a slight cosmetic upgrade so that they appear sharpened), so that they get the same buff to damage that a keen weapon does (and maybe upping the cold damage a bit). And for berserkers, I think probably something like improved odds at getting past Reach weapons when using CLAW would be cool.

Initially, I had considered requesting that the claws work with combat maneuvers, but the more I pondered on that, the more I didn't really like it. Follow-up punch is already strong in it's own regard, and being able to effectively unarmed staggering blow or mighty blow seems a bit unnecessary. The multiple attacks you get off of claws are already strong and unique (especially when you take abilities like Side By Side into account), so I think just little class based bonuses to flavor them would be a little more fun. That being said, I do think it'd be nice if, when grappling is added in, claws gave you a bonus to grappling people.
"You hear the Woses, the Wild Men of the Woods... Remnants of an older time they be, living few and secretly, wild and wary as beasts."
Navi
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Re: [Spoiler Alert] Hidden Druid Ability Discussion - Claws

Post by Navi »

I have been holding on to some feedback for this specific ability, so thank you for coming up with a way to discuss it. I like it. The location, the flavor text, the mechanics. I have some suggestions to develop it farther though.

Right now, the only time my berserker uses the ability is to improve climbing. This is partially because a lot of my warrior abilities can't be used unarmed, and partially because the sanity cost is quite high compared to other abilities. I am not trying to say it is too high of a cost. I just feel there is a lot of room here to make it feel like a boon rather than just utility. I think this is especially important given the particular connection between the ability’s emotion and the berserker’s concept.

My suggestion is to increase the fury meter for all druids that cast it by the cost of their sanity drop. Currently, that would put my own fury meter at a max of around 52. I don’t exactly know how the damage factor from fury works, nor how the negative rerolls from fury work either. There may need to be a cut off for balance purposes. Either way, this allows the berserker to stack more fury. Even if it didn’t increase the current DF and only scaled negative rolls, being able to bank some fury would be very useful when moving between fights.

Secondly, doing this grants some of the essence of the ability to other druids. The fury meter for nonberserkers might not be able to go very high, especially with people usually going for will outside of berserkers, but it’s something else that will allow players to come up with unique concepts. I also kind of like the idea of a druidic ability that rewards you for losing more of yourself to it.

I’m still formulating other suggestions. I can’t speak about prims or rangers, since berserkers play very differently. Once I have some more ideas, I’ll post them here though. Thanks for reading.
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Lexx416
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Re: [Spoiler Alert] Hidden Druid Ability Discussion - Claws

Post by Lexx416 »

Navi wrote: Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:37 pm I have been holding on to some feedback for this specific ability, so thank you for coming up with a way to discuss it. I like it. The location, the flavor text, the mechanics. I have some suggestions to develop it farther though.

Right now, the only time my berserker uses the ability is to improve climbing. This is partially because a lot of my warrior abilities can't be used unarmed, and partially because the sanity cost is quite high compared to other abilities. I am not trying to say it is too high of a cost. I just feel there is a lot of room here to make it feel like a boon rather than just utility. I think this is especially important given the particular connection between the ability’s emotion and the berserker’s concept.

My suggestion is to increase the fury meter for all druids that cast it by the cost of their sanity drop. Currently, that would put my own fury meter at a max of around 52. I don’t exactly know how the damage factor from fury works, nor how the negative rerolls from fury work either. There may need to be a cut off for balance purposes. Either way, this allows the berserker to stack more fury. Even if it didn’t increase the current DF and only scaled negative rolls, being able to bank some fury would be very useful when moving between fights.

Secondly, doing this grants some of the essence of the ability to other druids. The fury meter for nonberserkers might not be able to go very high, especially with people usually going for will outside of berserkers, but it’s something else that will allow players to come up with unique concepts. I also kind of like the idea of a druidic ability that rewards you for losing more of yourself to it.

I’m still formulating other suggestions. I can’t speak about prims or rangers, since berserkers play very differently. Once I have some more ideas, I’ll post them here though. Thanks for reading.
I think for combat, the claws are situationally useful. They certainly don't supplant the use of a weapon - and I think that's fine. IMO, the overall game is better off for the fact that the best way to fight things is just "be a fighter", rather than be some crazy buck wild supernatural juggernaut. However, the claws are VERY good in certain situations (such as dealing with anyone that gets multiple "avoid your attack" abilities, group combat with side-by-side since three claw attacks are 3 opportunities to trigger those, and they pair VERY well with a shield for times you might be in the negative balance - plus they can't be disarmed).

Having used them on both a Ranger and a Berserker, I really do think just giving them class specific boons would be enough (it's just a matter of figuring out what those bonuses should be).
"You hear the Woses, the Wild Men of the Woods... Remnants of an older time they be, living few and secretly, wild and wary as beasts."
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Lexx416
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Re: [Spoiler Alert] Hidden Druid Ability Discussion - Claws

Post by Lexx416 »

Given the recent change to unarmed attacks and off-hand weapons/items (like shields), I'll have to change my overall opinion of this ability. I think it probably needs something solid to improve it - I'm not sure 100% what that is yet, I'll have to have a think on it. But going Claws + Shield on my berserker for shield bashing and multi-attacks against slipper critters and characters was one of the few reasons I ever used the claws.
"You hear the Woses, the Wild Men of the Woods... Remnants of an older time they be, living few and secretly, wild and wary as beasts."
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