Stealth and Risk

For combat stuff that doesn't fit into any of the other forums.
shoryuujo
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Re: Stealth and Risk

Post by shoryuujo »

Would it be possible to remove rerolls on dodge/evasions when initially being attacked from stealth? It's sort of a somewhat ineffective ambush when they're always ready for the ambush, then you have to set up again, which affects how much Risk is being accumulated while trying to negate enemy reroll chances. Not sure if this angle was looked at, so I thought I'd throw it out there, that maybe having a better/decent chance at scoring the initial ambush, rather than having the initial attempts stacked against you.

Also, are NPCs also affected by risk changes? Do stealthed NPCs now suffer increasing risk as PCs search for them?
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Rias
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Re: Stealth and Risk

Post by Rias »

shoryuujo wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 8:42 amWould it be possible to remove rerolls on dodge/evasions when initially being attacked from stealth?
This is what stealth attacks do. The ambusher rolls their stealth vs the target's perception, and the better the results (for the ambusher), the more the target's rerolls are pushed down. Stalking makes it more effective, and Assassin's Mark even moreso. See also HELP AMBUSH in-game or the wiki article: https://cogg.contrarium.net/wiki/index.php/Ambush
Also, are NPCs also affected by risk changes? Do stealthed NPCs now suffer increasing risk as PCs search for them?
Yes, NPCs are affected by Risk just like PCs are.

P.S. Searching always caused risk for hiders in the room. It just has a greater impact now.
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Acarin
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Re: Stealth and Risk

Post by Acarin »

Rias, since we can't see rerolls on stealth, can you give us an idea of what this looks like based on risk for someone with no ability modifiers providing bonus stealth rerolls (not sure how many abilities give these)?

Is this base 0 rerolls with -1 reroll per 20 risk? Could these rolls be made available for player viewing on the stealth user's side as an option? This would certainly help with testing.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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Rias
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Re: Stealth and Risk

Post by Rias »

Attack from hiding: base 0 ambush success rerolls, unaffected by Risk
Stalking target: +2 ambush success rerolls, unaffected by Risk
Nightblade tactic: +2 ambush success rerolls (-1 per 20 Risk, floor of 0 - this specific bonus is negated in worst case, can't go negative)
<Rias> PUT ON PANTS
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Acarin
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Re: Stealth and Risk

Post by Acarin »

Thanks. That's helpful information. I meant for the actual hide check though, not the attack... I assume that is the check to see if an ambush succeeds, correct?

So for example, what does the chance to be found look like when someone is searching for you? This is impacted by risk, correct?
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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Rias
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Re: Stealth and Risk

Post by Rias »

Ah, sorry. Base 0 rerolls, -1 reroll per 20 Risk when being searched for.
<Rias> PUT ON PANTS
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Acarin
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Re: Stealth and Risk

Post by Acarin »

Thanks. Sorry for all the questions but I'm trying to do a crude probability calculation and want to make sure that I'm thinking about this correctly. RNG may be giving me a false sense of the impact of this which may be cleared up with some simple math.

If risk is driven from 12 to 24 on a second search, does the reroll penalty apply to that same search (meaning the one that created the risk) or the next one? In other words, would the reroll penalty (assuming no drop in risk) occur on searches 2 (24 risk), 4 (48 risk), 5 (60 risk), etc or on 3, 5, and 6?
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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Rias
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Re: Stealth and Risk

Post by Rias »

The Risk increase is applied after the skill check, so any Risk increase from a search will apply to the next search, not the current one. Also don't forget your Risk is ticking down by 1 every second, so in the 3-5 seconds it takes for the person to search (time based on their Perception skill), your Risk has gone down by that much. So if some searches and gives you 12 Risk but has 5 seconds RT for that search, by the time they can search again you're down to 7 Risk.

Also as I'm thinking about this, I'm considering giving the hider a base reroll. Considering the hider took the preparation to find a decent hiding spot, while the searcher doesn't necessarily have anything to go off of but is just searching around for something they can't currently see.
<Rias> PUT ON PANTS
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Acarin
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Re: Stealth and Risk

Post by Acarin »

I think that's my biggest concern here. I'm going to do some very crude calculations rather than just complaining and maybe that will help you make a determination. I think we got off base around my actual concern yesterday and apologies for being difficult around this. Since you took some time to investigate, I might as well take some time to present some semi-informed numbers here (that will probably be a bit off since I'm not doing a simulation and need to make assumptions) but will at least be somewhat informative.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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Rias
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Re: Stealth and Risk

Post by Rias »

A valid concern, and I apologize my part in causing you frustration and concern. I'm glad we're getting things figured out!
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