Combat and XP

For combat stuff that doesn't fit into any of the other forums.
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nobody
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Combat and XP

Post by nobody »

It was pointed out in the chat that XP reward is determined by the attack skill used, rather than overall skills available. That seems like a potential source of abuse (though I can also understand it as an intentional feature if its intended to make multiple combat zones viable). I also wanted to point out that stealth and defense skills don't appear to be taken into account at all, and possibly should be. For example, with 0 ranged and 300 stealth I can easily kill vagrants for hours and rarely get attacked, much less hit. There is some feature aspect in that too, encouraging people to invest wisely and maybe raise defense and helper skills first, but at present I feel it may not be functioning with the intended balance.

I started setting up a complicated alternative risk/reward calculation, but realized I don't know quite enough. So instead, I'm going to suggest setting up an OOC arena area where all of one's rolls are based on goals rather than current ranks, killable dummies that can be set to have certain skill numbers, and no XP gain, but an echo of what XP gain would be (as % of bucket). This would allow for players to take on a bigger role with testing and also quickly try out a broad range of builds. For example, I'd love to give better feedback on multi-throw, and that would be a tool that would allow me to do so quite quickly.

Edit to add: the summonable dummies would be a nice to have, but having two players with the ability to control their rolls via goals would be sufficient for a lot of testing. Probably death there should result in auto-respawn in the same room at full hp with no morale or sanity loss though.
Acarin
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: Combat and XP

Post by Acarin »

I brought this up earlier and do find it strange that I can get more experience from killing a laborer right now with multithrow than guards and militiamen with melee. Im not entirely sure what the solution is because it does take time to kill with the lower skill and think we should get some experience (but maybe reduced). I entirely agree with the defensive portion of this though... I can sit in there forever and never get hit so the risk is really gone. The problem is that training a low skill up that was ignored until your other combat skill is higher would be very demotivating if this changed... and if you have both ranged and melee and there's a discrepancy at max skill, why shouldn't you be allowed to hunt for experience with both? I could dump all my skill points into dodge and shield then pick up melee or ranged at level 50... does this mean I shouldn't get exp? No good answers here.

The only easy solution I could see is having a single combat skill and taking care of the ranged/melee divide with affinities or abilities... but that probably isn't an option. I'd just hate for something to be implemented where people feel stuck and unable to advance because they chose to focus on one skill first.
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
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Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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Rias
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Re: Combat and XP

Post by Rias »

I'd be happy to hear any suggestions put forward, but I'm not overly worried about this. At the end of the day, in this game people can get experience and level up risk-free in a wide variety of ways. One could forage their way to level 100 if they really wanted to. Supplemental crafting skills are popular for this too - carve wooden dowels to carry you from 0 to 100. Or someone could intentionally keep one of their combat skills at 0 and use it to level off ravens and infested vagrants all the way to 100. If that's what someone really thinks would be the ideal way to do things rather than playing their warrior as an actual warrior who's fighting their way up the ladder every day ... okay, I guess. I feel like that would be robbing oneself of the greater gameplay and character growth experience, but okay. They're still at least going to have to work up their skill practice over multiple combat zones once they finally decide to start mass dumping points into their combat skills once they're high-level.

If we were to want a system where it's more seriously "you have to keep yourself challenged as you climb" it'd require an overhaul to how skill advancement works and I'd probably ditch the level system altogether. Which is one of those things I constantly revisit and theorize about. I think we're at a decent medium right now with the skill practice thing. People feel free enough that they can do what they want to earn general experience to level up, but (most) skills do have to be actually practiced in order to increase them specifically.

Regarding stealth (and perception) in combat: The way it should be working is that for simply moving around and other non-immediate-combat applications, you always use the full value from your skills. When it comes to performing or detecting stealth attacks though, they will be at most as effective as if they were your level * 10. This means their combat application should match the same restriction as combat skills with the "only 10 per level" skill restriction, but I didn't want to keep people from training them more than that for non-attack purposes. If people want to frontload a bunch of their points into Stealth early so they can sneak past baddies without a fight all the more effectively, or into perception so they can see all stealth attacks coming a mile away while working on their combat skills later, power to them.
<Rias> PUT ON PANTS
<Fellborn> NO
Acarin
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:49 pm

Re: Combat and XP

Post by Acarin »

Thanks for the clarification, Rias. It's good to know that I'm not abusing a bug if I decide to hurl knives at a laborer for fun and profit.

Regarding the stealth and perception going greater than one's level... these 2 skills do definitely impact combat since for a stealth character, the initial stealth checks can be a prerequisite to the attack. I get where you're going with it, but separating out being able to hide or not hide from the rest of combat rolls seems off to me... especially given that extra stealth checks are now needed to engage. It's not really a problem at the moment but just seems inconsistent to me to break this out from other combat (but I understand that non-combat characters use stealth and perception for a variety of things).
You reach toward ((DEV Rias)) ... Pull(d225([1]x)):214 vs Mark(d1100):714 = -500 (-222%)
You notice ((DEV Rias)) glance your way, causing you to quickly withdraw your hand from his wool
drawstring pouch (open).
Roundtime: 5 seconds.
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