Farm access exploits

Because there are too many crafting/profession skills for each to have its own forum.
User avatar
Karjus
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Farm access exploits

Post by Karjus »

What about restricting farm size based on the owner's skill, and not allowing zero skill people to buy farmland in the first place. Protected, safe, land is at a premium. They're not going to hand it out to anyone.

Also anyone who gets shelved gets their land frozen.
- Karjus

Speaking to you, XYZ says, "Never bother to wash it. It gets dirty again anyway."
Speaking to XYZ, you say, "I hope you don't treat your ass the same way."
User avatar
Rias
DEV
Posts: 2024
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:06 pm
Location: Wandering Temicotli

Re: Farm access exploits

Post by Rias »

Renting farmland already requires some farming or husbandry skill, so that's covered. Good call on un-renting land for shelved characters, though.
<Rias> PUT ON PANTS
<Fellborn> NO
User avatar
Karjus
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:28 am

Re: Farm access exploits

Post by Karjus »

Does it scale though? Same plot for 100 skill vs 700? I mean if someone wants to sink skill points which are the most valuable thing ever for a large plot, and then not touch it but have a passive income which isn't that hard to come by... I know what I think of that trade.
- Karjus

Speaking to you, XYZ says, "Never bother to wash it. It gets dirty again anyway."
Speaking to XYZ, you say, "I hope you don't treat your ass the same way."
Navi
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:07 am

Re: Farm access exploits

Post by Navi »

I do like Maina's idea, though it kind of stymies any future farm stealing stuff, if that's something that can even be done, or is something that will happen, but option 1 does that already. Perhaps you can put a limit on how many farm activities you can perform per day based on your related skills as well. Could reduce skillgain and exp from working on another person's farm.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
Rilulth
Posts: 178
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:22 am

Re: Farm access exploits

Post by Rilulth »

I like option 1, myself, and Karjus' idea of limiting farmland size based on owner skill.

Navi's idea about reducing skill/exp gain on others farms sounds plausible, though I believe the end goal is riln, not skill/exp and would harm those that get together to genuinely share a single plot.

As an alternative to option 1, allow access for 2-4 hours daily to a none-owner, but the owner must lead them into the plot before granting access.

For storage issues, give a shed recipe with limited space to store wood and building tools. Let the janitor loose on excess left out as a landlord condition. The land is not owned, just rented after all.
tulpa —
If we ever get player housing, Mistralite houseshares are going to be full of this stuff. "Damnit who let the thousand-year old angry venomous moths out of their velvet pouch again?"
User avatar
Rias
DEV
Posts: 2024
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:06 pm
Location: Wandering Temicotli

Re: Farm access exploits

Post by Rias »

Rilulth wrote: Mon May 04, 2020 12:54 amFor storage issues, give a shed recipe with limited space to store wood and building tools. Let the janitor loose on excess left out as a landlord condition. The land is not owned, just rented after all.
I've been very tempted to do this for a long time, and I think I just may at this point.
<Rias> PUT ON PANTS
<Fellborn> NO
User avatar
Rias
DEV
Posts: 2024
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:06 pm
Location: Wandering Temicotli

Re: Farm access exploits

Post by Rias »

I've been pondering over the idea of just having a tracker that tracks how much the farmland owner has done on their land. So if a bunch of other people have been working the land while the owner has done nothing, it'll eventually prevent visitors from doing any more work (farm work I mean - not things like building/repairing structures). So in order for visitors to do things like milking, planting, harvesting, shearing, etc. the owner will have to have been at least somewhat active recently themselves. Because the primary issue here is that of someone renting farmland with no intent to actually use it themselves, but for others to use instead.

So after shearing x amount of wool while the owner's been gone or inactive you'd get a message like, "You should probably let the farmer who owns this land do some of their own work." or whatever. Yes, there's no IC magical force or mind control compelling you to stop - it's one of those game intent balance things that players will need to just take in stride.
<Rias> PUT ON PANTS
<Fellborn> NO
User avatar
Irylia
Posts: 274
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:20 pm

Re: Farm access exploits

Post by Irylia »

I definitely get where the problem is and understand the desire for a solution. I think a lot of what has been proposed has some merit, though I'm not overly fond of either solution 1 or 2 as proposed. Solution 1 seems troublesome because with the way construction works now it can take hours, or even days (depending on time constraints) to finish a project. Having this kind of limitation will make it very difficult to coordinate work times if schedules don't line up. Solution 2 seems fair from the standpoint of preventing the abuse mentioned, but might make it difficult to support certain roleplaying activities or potential farm-related events.

The suggestion to be unable to remove things from the farm seems alright on the surface. I've never liked the idea of someone being able to steal something from my home or farm if they visit, but I suppose if you're trusting them enough to let them in to begin with then you're taking that risk. And I don't think that activity should be mechanically prevented either - at least on a small scale. People coming in and taking a cartload full or multiple cartloads full of goods is another matter entirely.

I do rather like the idea of restricting farm size based on skill level either in Farming or Husbandry and having it scale appropriately. There's no reason for someone with very low skill to need a massive farm as that shouldn't be the main focus of their character. If someone wants to be a generous benefactor to another player, they can make riln donations towards that person's rent rather than renting land themselves and letting others use it.

Perhaps an alternative or addition to this could be that you rent either "pasture" or "farmland" specifically. Certain structures can only be built on either or both as applicable and you could have a single farm with both pasture and farmland based on skill in each area. So someone with 200 in farming and 400 in husbandry could rent more pasture than farmland, but rent more of both than someone with 100 skill in either. This way someone with only 100 in farming can't have all types of animals or only 100 in husbandry can't also grow crops. If they let someone have access to their farm then at least it's also small enough to not be that big a deal, hopefully. Then again, this might be overly complicating matters.

Turning off rent for shelved does seem like a good solution for some of this since someone could potentially rent 6 months worth of time and then peace out with access open to other characters for the duration. Being able to save at least some of that rented time purchased in advance when shelving would be a nice addition if this goes through.

I don't think I'd want to see reductions in skillgain or exp from working at someone else's farm. If you're there genuinely to help out as part of the Farming Association, I wouldn't want that impacted or people less motivated to help because there's no benefit to them spending their time helping someone else at that point.

The storage idea is a good one, though I still personally prefer having things more organized in separate containers based on item type (wood components in one crate, wool in another etc.). I would definitely prefer not to have the farms be janitored on a regular basis. Sometimes I leave a project out so I can keep working on it later and having to micromanage putting things away after every use seems like it could lead to a lot of people losing things just from forgetting. There is already a ground-clutter limit in place and work can't be done while it's past capacity.

Tracking owner use seems like it might be the best idea if skill-to-size restrictions don't appeal. I don't mind the somewhat OOC nature of a reminder that this isn't your farm and maybe the owner should work it a bit. It allows people to still help each other freely and would seem to prevent the abuse you're concerned about with bypassing land restrictions. I would recommend that if you go this route, maybe make it cumulative so that if you have multiple people working your land, all of their time adds together against the owner's one time tracker. And maybe add an exception for construction projects/repairs so that those don't count against it since they're not strictly related to either farming or husbandry.
User avatar
Bonehead
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:47 pm

Re: Farm access exploits

Post by Bonehead »

I'm not fond of option 1 because it removes the entire point of inviting people into your farm. It removes the entire point I made my farm as large as it is. It also removes the entire point of why Invited some people to play, namely, to work together in working, building up, and profiting from a farm. If I wanted to invite a new player onto my farm in order for them to earn some coin as well as animal Husbandry skill, I cannot do that.

Literally half the reason I do anything related to farming is so that people can work together to profit and have fun. Now, because I have done so, admittedly on an extreme end of things, half the fun of farming is taken away.

Admittedly, nobody really ever asks for help with farming even though it is offered freely, but the point is the offer was there, and open, and available.
Wut?
User avatar
Rias
DEV
Posts: 2024
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2017 4:06 pm
Location: Wandering Temicotli

Re: Farm access exploits

Post by Rias »

I agree, the access system and allowing people to work cooperatively on things would be a real shame to lose. However, I'm of the opinion that the ability to help others on their farms should be having some capacity to assist them with what they're already doing, and not just doing everything for them. I'm doing my best to find a way to keep the access system and ability for people to work cooperatively on projects and whatnot, while preventing the issues with virtually limitless farmland by proxy renter and the clutter problem.

Here's what I'm thinking:
- I like the idea of farm expansion limits based on skill
- Janitor the ground on farms, and add more storage unit types to construction
- When you go to leave your farm, you'll be warned if there are items on the ground that may be lost to the janitor, to help prevent people from forgetting to clean up their stuff they've been working with or whatever
- Keep the access system, and go with just checking if the farm owner has done any work recently in order to decide if others should be allowed to perform farming actions. Basic maintenance tasks like watering, weeding, and feeding animals will remain unrestricted, to help people not lose stuff if they're away for extended periods and have arranged for others to swing by and keep their crops and livestock alive. Construction will also remain unrestricted (never intended to restrict this aspect).
<Rias> PUT ON PANTS
<Fellborn> NO
Post Reply