Tailoring/Weaving

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Avedri
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Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:05 pm

Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Avedri » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:34 am

Quality of Life

It would be great if recipes showed the components in greater detail before you learn them.
Tags/Labels that work like a crafting mark.

New Materials/Weaves:

Silk - Raising mulberry silkworms could be included in animal husbandry or ideally through weaving. You would need woven fiber boxes, leaves/plant fiber to feed them. You could check daily to see if there are cocoon fibers to harvest and then spin thread to create “silk thread”.
Cloth-of-metal - take threads of metal and weave them around yarn threads

Weave silk - noil, gauze, damask, charmeuse, brocade, organza, satin, raw, samite, tulle, velvet
Weave wool - twill, flannel, challis, broadcloth, felt, homespun, tartan, tweed
Weave cotton - fustian, muslin, moleskin, linen, canvas (needs to be treated), cambric, barkcloth, lace

Subtypes of existing recipes:
(could take more cloth depending on the cut)

Dress - cotehardie, gown, kirtle, houppelande, shift, undergown, underdress, chemise, overgown

Customization

I think it would be awesome if tailored items could have 1 tailoring adjustment and 1 embellishment. Tailoring adjustments would remark on the style of the garment, how it has been specially cut. Embellishment would be what has been added to the garment after it has been cut/sewn.

Tailoring adjustments examples:

Sleeves - bell-shaped, trailing, floor-length, cap, bloused, slashed, cuffed, trumpet, sleeveless, dolman, elbow-length, flounced

Hems - calf-length, knee-length, floor-length, cathedral-length, trailing, pooling, cascading

Fit - loose, baggy, fitted, tight, narrow, svelte, tailored, backless

Collars - open, low, high, flared, stiff, short, tall, pointed, band, wingtip, button-down

Neckline - plunging, strapless, illusion, halter, square, v, off-shoulder, asymmetrical, scoop

Embellishments examples:

Buckles, buttons, beads, laces, hemming, trim, underskirts, lining, clasps, fringe, studs

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Rias
DEV
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Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Rias » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:02 pm

Very nice ideas. I definitely need to make it so you can make the base cloth types into those others (wool to tweed, etc.).

Avedri
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Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:05 pm

Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Avedri » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:15 am

Tailoring an item takes a lot of work and right now you can't do anything with *terrible* quality that I've found. It would be great to shred terrible quality clean clothes into bandages.

Thanks!

alila
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:16 am

Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by alila » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:19 am

Sorry if this is already possible and I missed it, but could weavers have the ability to make rags or small towels for cleaning?

Avedri
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Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:05 pm

Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Avedri » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:20 pm

alila wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:19 am
Sorry if this is already possible and I missed it, but could weavers have the ability to make rags or small towels for cleaning?
Nothing like this is on the list currently.

Also, tailoring leveling seems very slow based on the amount of work it takes to get to a point where you can create something. It would be nice to get more meaningful gains from the process of trace/cut/sew.

Irylia
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:20 pm

Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Irylia » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:25 pm

Weaving Ideas

Apologies in advance for the very long post. I was thinking about ways to make Weaving unique and desirable for non-bushcrafters aside from tailors possibly needing it minimally just to get their thread and cloth. I think I have a few ideas that might give players more incentive to actually put work into Weaving itself though.

Unique Recipes:

Currently non-Bushcraft Weaving and Tailoring share many recipes and so they're merely variations on the same type of product. This is fine, of course, but I wanted to see if there are some things that can set Weaving apart. Here are some of the things I've come up with:

Yarn-making:
Earlier in the thread Avedri asked about cloth-making with different materials, weaves, and patterns. But what about the yarn itself? At present there is only the capability for wool yarn. The following yarn fibers being made available through farming, bushcraft, or animal husbandry would really expand the usefullness and interest in Weaving:

Alpaca, Angora, Camel, Cashmere, Cotton, Hemp, Linen, Mohair, Silk, Wool, Wolf/Dog, Buffalo, Yak, Bamboo, Nettle

(Infographic of common yarn types: https://content.primecp.com/master_imag ... Crafts.pdf)

It could be that some of these cloths require higher skill levels to unlock the recipe for or might need to have either the fiber or recipe learned through a traveling merchant to keep rarity up.

Dying:

Being able to dye in various patterns would also be useful:
- Heathered or tweed (flecked with other colors)
- Ombre (variegated with light and dark shades of a single color)
- Multicolored (variegated with at least two colors)
- Self-striping (dyed at specific intervals to allow stripes to occur without changing skeins)
- Marled (different colored yarns twisted together into a single strand)

Handicrafts:

Canvas work (weaving) - making canvas cloth

Crochet/Knitting (weaving) - some are already in, but being able to differentiate between crochet and knit would be awesome
- bracelets
- loofas
- afghans
- blankets
- shoulder bags/purses/clutches
- baskets
- capes/ponchos
- costumes
- cowls
- tea cozies
- dishcloths
- dresses/skirts
- gloves/mittens
- hats/beanies
- jackets
- pants
- pillows/poufs
- shawls/wraps
- rugs
- scarves
- slippers
- socks
- sweaters/cardigans
- shirts/tunics
- stuffed toys
- vests
- snood
- cloche
- bonnet
- mushroom hat
- sun hat

Crochet/Knit Weaves - can be used for either unless specified. These can be used to modify the finished piece.
- cable stitch
- braided cable stitch
- herringbone weave
- cluster panels/panneled weave
- bargello stitch (kind of a chevron shape)
- granny square
- basketweave
- chevron stitch
- ogee (double-s shaped curve)
- bobbles stitch
- mitered stitch
- shells stitch
- loop stitch
- single/mesh stitch
- double stitch
- triple stitch
- moss/granite stitch
- puff stitch
- v-stitch
- mosaic herringbone (knit)
- gridline (knit)
- seed stitch (knit)

Crochet/Knit Patterns - further modification in conjunction or separate from the weave type
- stripes
- hearts
- stars
- tendrils
- wave
- diamond filet
- ridged
- seashells
- birds
- trees
- squares
- circles
Dreamcatchers (weaving/bushcraft)

Felting (weaving - technically pressed fibers so not woven, but would fall into this area)

Knitting (weaving)

Lacemaking (regular/delicate lace - weaving) - Lace could be used as an applied custom item to tailored pieces for "trim" or detailing. It could also just be used for things like doilies.
- needle lace
- cutwork
- bobbin lace
- tape lace
- knotted lace
- crocheted lace
- knitted lace

Lucet cloth (weaving/bushcraft) - A lucet fork is a handheld tool used for cordmaking and braiding. The cords were then hung from clothing or belts.

Macrame (weaving/bushcraft) - Knotwork used to make patterns and designs for decoration.
- knife handle covers
- bottle covers
- wall hangings
- rugs/mats
- plant holders
- baskets
- bags

Millinery (weaving/leatherworking) These could be felted or made with leather.
- beanie
- cap
- flat cap
- top hat
- beret
- fez
- tricorn

Rug making (weaving)

Silkscreening (weaving)

Tapestry making (weaving) - This could maybe require similar steps to rug-making mechanics-wise but take far longer and involve pre-approved patterns or an NPC.

Tatting (sturdy lace - weaving)

I got most of this from Wikipedia and I'm sure some of it's wrong. Please feel free to make additions/corrections and leave further feedback. I would love to see these skills further fleshed out beyond the basics at some point. It would be amazing if there could be a way to differentiate between the patterns you learn (weave or tailoring) if the two share the same name. Also would it be possible to make it so examining cloth will show you how warm it would be for when new cloth types are eventually added? Thanks for reading!

Irylia
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:20 pm

Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Irylia » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:41 pm

Tailoring and Weaving Possible Adjustments/Overhaul:

I'm just getting started in Tailoring. The system definitely works, but I think it could be vastly improved as far as efficiency, storage, economic worth, and practice gains. I know that changing something that works is not a priority right now, nor should it be, but I think Tailoring/Weaving processes could be improved quite a bit so I'd like to suggest this now in case others feel the same way.

Tailoring as-is currently takes a lot of individual materials and these materials take quite a bit of time to produce despite their sell-values being relatively low (I assume due to steps issues and cloth and thread basically not having any listed - even batch sells are very low-value). Practice gains are also very slow compared to other systems I've tried because you have to spend so much time making the parts and then the actual product creation gives very low amounts per step and may not have many steps to begin with compared to the materials costs. I feel like the distribution of materials is also somewhat backwards and almost feels like pieces would come out all as patchwork rather than nicely tailored products.

That said, I'd like to see something similar to the following adjustments:

- Projects will no longer take many little pieces of cloth or thread or yarn, but rather parts of or whole cloth bolts. You may have a leftover piece if the project is particularly small or falls between two sizes.
- Cloth will take a lot of thread to make, but thread will be much bigger to start with so it will only actually use 1-3 "spools".
- A bolt of cloth would come in one of three sizes. Large bolt (3 threads), medium bolt (2 threads), small bolt of cloth (1 thread).
- A skein of yarn would do similarly as above
- Thread will be split into two low or no-point recipes (weaving and sewing) with known steps that count in the steps-to-riln market calculations.
- Yarn will become a low or no-point recipe that requires thread to make.
- Cloth bolts can be dyed or screen-printed before making the finished product to give it patterns.
- Clothing can still be dyed as a finished product.
- Yarn will become dyable.
- Thread will become dyable.
- Projects may take vastly more steps for each component part, but this would mean more end value and more practice gains.
- Screen-printing will be added.
- MODIFY BRAND would be adjusted to sewing a tag to the clothing rather than carving or branding your finished product

Random factoid:
- Threads are made by twisting fibers.
- Yarn is made by twisting threads.

Currently yarn and thread take the same process to make which vastly simiplifies things, but the end result is a mountain of individual thread and yarn pieces which is part of what I'm trying to avoid. The following are examples of how things would work vs how they work now. For baseline - let's say a piece of wool has 60 uses.

- Currently you can get about 60 pieces in any combination of thread and/or yarn from a single piece of wool. That's a lot of little pieces to keep with you and keep track of. With proposed changes you would end up with a larger spool of weaving thread that takes up 20 of those uses of the wool or a smaller spool of sewing thread that would take up 1 use of wool - in any combination to use up the full piece of wool. And you can finish on a paritially spun spool of weaving thread if you really want to and finish it with the next piece of wool.

- Currently it's 3 threads to a cloth, of which you then need many pieces to make a project plus additional threads to sew it with. With this change it would be 3 threads to make a large bolt of cloth. You would use one bolt of appropriate size for your project and some sewing thread.

(Basically - 1 piece of wool now has the potential to = 1 large bolt of cloth + some leftover to use for smaller projects or to cut into scraps for bandages.)

- Right now the largest cloth amount needed for a recipe is 24 pieces. At 3 threads each that's 72 uses of wool + 12 threads to sew it. The next largest is 18 pieces of cloth which is 54 uses of wool + 6 threads to sew it. With the new system, instead of needing 94 individual components for that very large project, you would need 1 large bolt, 1 small bolt, and some sewing thread. You would end up with some of the small bolt leftover for another project.

So if a piece of thread now takes 20 uses instead of 1 use, that means you get three weaving threads per wool piece (minimum) and can make one full large bolt of cloth. The large bolt can make those recipes that take 18 cloth pieces currently and leave a little leftover. The item that takes 24 pieces currently could require a large and small bolt's worth of material.

Value:

Wool costs about 420+ riln at the market. Most finished tailoring projects seem to sell for less than the base material costs rather than reflecting the time put into processing that wool into a finished product. I would like to see this adjusted - possibly by changing the value or calculation of steps. If you're not making all the cloth from scratch, I could see why it's so low. But as with construction, if you do take the time to make all the base parts and the finished product, that adds up considerably and it would be amazing if it could be automatically given a value in the market system.

Potential Added Recipes:

Animal Husbandry:
- Silk screen
- Paintbrushes

Bushcraft:
- Colored inks from ash

Woodworking:
- Wooden Spool Large (required for making weaving thread)
- Wooden Spool Small (required for making sewing thread)
- Wooden printing screen frame
- Wooden screen print stencil
- Paintbrush handle

Weaving:
Large bolt of <fabric> cloth (60 wool uses - 3 weaving threads)
Medium bolt of <fabric> cloth (40 wool uses - 2 weaving threads)
Small bolt of <fabric> cloth (20 wool uses - 1 weaving thread)

(You could do this one of several ways: Make bolts of varying size. Make bolts of only one size (large) and cut them down to 1 medium and 1 small.)

Spinning/Weaving Recipes:
Large spool of <fabric> weaving thread - made from wool/fibers (20 uses of wool)
Small spool of <fabric> sewing thread - made from wool/fibers (1 use of wool - essentially same as current thread)
Large skein of yarn - made from large spool of <fabric> weaving thread
- yarn might take 3-5 spools of weaving thread spun simultaneously
- changing to this format would allow people to make wool with multiple color strands
- finished yarn could also be dyed anywhere from 1-5 colors to allow for previously suggested yarn types and auto-striping yarn

-------------

The separation of the varying components and their dyability allows for a lot more customization to be coded in. For example, you could end up with a black dress shirt bound with gold thread - or a variegated blue and silver wool scarf. If the thread and cloth colors match, then the thread would not show. If the finished product was dyed instead of the cloth, thread, or yarn, then it would also just be a solid color - as it is now. These kinds of changes would let players add a more personal touch and might help the process feel more engaging overall.

Current recipe calculations would need to be adjusted. I would be happy to work on that if this actually got interest. Apologies for any mathematical errors. I may be the only person who wants a change like this as well, but I would welcome any feedback from others who have tried the system as it is currently or who might have further insights.

Even if the above changes aren't made or desired, can something be altered with the speed of practice gains for now? One thing that might help is changing the "cut" step from a single 100-second RT to multiple steps with practice points. Overall tailoring is currently extremely slow to build up compared to many other crafts given you can't even do tailoring without first having the materials from weaving or the market. Weaving goes up pretty fast and you can easily avoid feeling like you have wasted effort making terrible products because you're can just make thread or yarn to do other things with until you've racked up skill. Tailoring doesn't have anything like that currently and this means a lot more time and work has to go into it just to get average quality products. Any consideration would be greatly appreciated.

Irylia
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:20 pm

Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Irylia » Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:44 am

Since we're getting into colder weather, I was wondering if we could get a few more recipes added to help keep the population warm. Here are a few ideas:

Weaving:
- knit <material> sweater
- knit <material> vest
- knit <material> beanie
- knit <material> drawstring satchel
- knit <material> tote
- knit <material> hand warmers (fingerless gloves that extend up the arms for double arm warmth)
- knit <material> fingerless gloves
- knit <material> leg warmers (worn over leggings/pants for double leg warmth)
- knit <material> blanket/afghan
- knit <material> headband (the ear covering kind)
- knit <material> leggings
- knit <material> capelet
- knit <material> hooded capelet
- knit <material> cape
- knit <material> poncho

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Lexx416
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Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Lexx416 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:37 am

Being able to make just a hood would be nice as well, worn on the head slot.
"You hear the Woses, the Wild Men of the Woods... Remnants of an older time they be, living few and secretly, wild and wary as beasts."

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