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Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Irylia » Thu Sep 10, 2020 8:09 am

Since the weather has once again turned cold, I was thinking it might be a good time to bump the possibility of adding dual layer or warmer options for certain body parts that can't currently reach "Excellent" warmth levels with limitations as they are. Head, hands, legs all come to mind. See previous posts for ideas of garments that might be layered to help alleviate this concern, though more layers might need to be added to those body parts first.

Items that might be added in addition to those previously suggested (some duplicates may apply):
- long underwear
- leggings that can be worn under skirts or pants (current leggings are their own pants layer)
- thick socks (as opposed to regular socks - 2x warmth?)
- knit hood (as suggested in a different post)
- knit balaclava/face mask

This next ask might be potentially going into leatherworking territory and it has come up before, but it might be good to add the option to fur-line tailored items either as an add-on or during initial creation. Furs used in this way are usually thin or soft enough leather to sew normally and adding a fur collar, cuffs, hood, or lining components could be an easy way to add extra warmth without having to wear additional garments layered over each other. Full-fur garments can still be leatherworking only or maybe be an affinity for high-skill tailors for cross-skill application. Or maybe the difference can be between armor and clothing as far as the line between tailoring and leatherworking since, again, it's usually a different treatment and crafting process between those thicker armor-used leathers and thinner garment leather. To clarify - I'm not asking that tailors be able to make the furs to do this, just that they be able to use those fur items as components or purchase furs from the market and process them into the components/garments after a leatherworker has treated them.

- current item: a <color> <material> overcoat
- new item: a <color> <material> overcoat lined with <animal> fur
- new item: a <color> <material> overcoat with a/an <animal> fur collar
- new item: a <color> <material> overcoat with a/an <animal> fur hood
- new item: a <color> <material> overcoat with <animal> fur cuffs

Or to keep things simpler, they don't have to show in the main item line and can just be in the components. The suggested components are lining (body/arms), collar (neck), hood (head), cuffs (arms/hands).

Potential critter additions/alterations for "fur" options:
- raccoons
- squirrels
- fox
- rabbit (the non-serafair variety)
- mink
- muskrat
- beaver
- stoat/ermine
- otter
- sable
- seal
- coyote (but not coydogs!)
- wolf
- chinchilla
- opossum
- brushtail possum

Also it looks like there was never an answer posted about inconsistencies with cloth/thread amount for materials used and the number of steps to cut or sew a project. Are those items intended to be as-is or should they be adjusted somewhere down the line so that the more complex projects have a number of steps that reflect their difficulty, materials, and skill rating? Another example that might be more glaring is that an overcoat takes 18 cloth, 8 thread, and 10 buttons. A duster takes 18 cloth, 8 thread, and no buttons. The duster takes only 12 steps to craft while the overcoat takes 50 steps. Both have the same skill requirement to make, but one gives considerably more practice than the other for almost the same material cost. The same issue happens with weaving as well - some items take far more yarn than others but it doesn't always seem to make sense based on the finished product size.

As always, I appreciate any input. Thanks for reading.

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Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Irylia » Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:23 pm

Can we get a line added to clothing/armor of all kinds that says the warmth level? I don't seem to see it in the current "examine" output.

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Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Rias » Sun Nov 29, 2020 7:32 pm

Changelog-General: Examining applicable wearable items will now note how much warmth they provide.

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A tailoring and weaving potpourri post

Post by nobody » Sat Dec 26, 2020 4:05 pm

Talked with a few tailors to come up with additional ideas and I have the following (thanks Aisha, Falor, and Irylia for the ideas!):

A few new items to help with the pioneer esthetic:
  • Hair ribbon (1 skein of thread, 5 steps, weaving)
  • Bonnet (same as cap/hat, tailoring)
  • Kerchief (worn like bonnet to keep hair out of the way when doing messy things (cooking, pottery, butchering, etc) (1 cloth, 1 skein thread, tailoring)
  • Cloth apron (better for cooking than for forging, still keeps your clothes less messy) (half a dress or between cape and cloak, tailoring)
  • Handkerchief (a nice zero skill average quality item for tailoring practice) (1 cloth, 1 skein of thread, tailoring)
  • Fingerless gloves (less warmth than gloves, same materials as gloves and mittens, weaving (knitted) or tailoring)
  • Corset (same as blouse + 3 small bones or 6 tiny metal rods, tailoring, worn in an upper-body underclothing slot for traditional renaissance style, or as outer wear in true ren-fest fashion)
  • Sleeveless shirt/blouse (same as shirt/blouse minus 1 or 2 cloth, tailoring, no warmth for arms)
The next two things are two paths to accomplishing the same goals.
Tailoring add-ons:
These are items that are created separately and attached to acceptable garments via a needle and thread:
  • Hood attaches to cloak, robe, maybe long-coat to produce hooded cloak, hooded robe, etc. (same materials as cap, tailoring, should require same color and material before attaching)
  • Lace attaches to cap, bonnet, kerchief, cloth apron, handkerchief, blouse to add the prefix adjective lace-trimmed. (1 skein of thread, weaving, 20 steps)
  • Pocket attaches invisibly to trousers, pants, breeches, skirts, dresses, robes, cloaks, coats, dusters, and aprons to add pocket storage (1 cloth, 1 skein of thread, tailoring - I believe this already exists for pants-type items, not sure about the rest).
Tailoring creativity via designs:
Instead of the above add-on items, allow alternative tailoring items to be created without expanding the recipes to accommodate many similar style items. Syntax: sew cloth make cloak design hooded cloak. That would allow the creation of cloaks and robes with or without hoods, but would also allow for many different dress type items (gowns, sundresses, etc.).

Advanced Tailoring Alterations:
A skilled tailor can alter clothing to better fit, or to better reflect a certain style.
OOC description: (The ability to modify the adjective of sewn or woven clothing.)
Syntax: modify adjective (while holding the object in the right hand)
Prerequisite Skills:
Tailoring: 200

Adjectives would be pulled from a list specific to each recipe (which is a lot of work, sorry).
I'm hoping my collaborators will be better able than myself to provide some relevant adjectives, as all I have is: tailored, fitted, form-fitting, sweeping, floor-length, tight, loose, and baggy.

A similar ability for leatherworking would probably make the leatherworkers quite happy as well.

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Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Xandrea » Sat Dec 26, 2020 5:23 pm

I remember the adjectives thing. The cool thing about the items we have right now is that they're broad. Second only to being able to redescribe items/rename them is being able to modify already tailored items and adding an adjective or two. Thus making a the broad (Dress) a (flowing dress, short dress, patchwork dress) Just adding this can really change the idea of how something looks.

The ones I've come up with are as follows and some will repeat from the prior example.

Flowing, Long, Short, Embroidered, Patchwork, Fitted, loose, Wide, Trimmed, stitched, Fettered, Rumpled, Quilted, Homespun, Striped, Comfortable, Thick, Thin, Ergonomic, Collared, Dainty, Knee-length, Layered, Drapey, Patterned, Silky, Geometric.

I could probably go on for awhile but, putting patterns on clothing is an entire roster of words and colour ideas of it's own.
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Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Avedri » Sun May 30, 2021 12:06 pm

Hey - you know what time it is.

Just want to bump all the things suggest here but really reiterate that considering recipes consume/require thread, buttons, buckles it seems as though we should be able to display them.

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Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Teri » Sat Sep 11, 2021 7:03 pm

I dunno if this sounds feasible or not, but I was wondering any thoughts on doubling what is produced while spinning wool into thread, as in the roundtime/what is produced. It would be the same amount of time overall, and the same output, but the intent would be to have less messages about the spinning itself. I do enjoy it, but with 4 people weaving and spinning at the same time, rp can be a bit difficult as the text scrolls by.
Last edited by Teri on Tue Feb 22, 2022 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Marcuson » Sat Sep 18, 2021 3:43 pm

The description for the weaver's workshop in Shadgard reads as if there are multiple looms - but there's mechanically only one, so only one character at a time can weave cloth. Maybe we could have portable looms (as Construction items) that offer slower but more-mobile weaving of cloth, or the community could get together to donate labor and materials for additional looms in the weaver's workshop.

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Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Lexx416 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:10 pm

It'd be super handy if we could get a list of Woven Items, much like exists for other crafts out there (Knapped Items, Tailored Items, Etc.) on the wiki/helpfile system.
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Re: Tailoring/Weaving

Post by Talyn » Wed Mar 30, 2022 4:57 pm

So, I'm adding to this since Baako may or may not have picked up Weaving/Tailoring. I can now feel the pain of all you would-be tailors/weavers. However, holy crap did I think the exaggeration you all mentioned about this profession is not so much an exaggeration. It's not bad and surely better I'm sure than it was before. However, I had some thoughts about it that I thought might help.

When weaving thread into cloth instead of having 100's of pieces of cloth why not make it a bit like leatherworking. so wool -> thread -> cloth -> bigger cloth. What I mean is when we kill animals and skin them depending on their size we get that size pelt. In tailoring/weaving we could take:
4x cloth to make cloth (small-sized)
8x cloth to make cloth (Medium-sized)
12x cloth for cloth (Large-sized).

Or replace the cloth and simply use thread instead of thread being 3x thread = 1 cloth use variables stated above. Then when you trace the cloth it would continue usage like leatherworking, charcoal to trace the item desired and then the tailoring process would continue. The same could be said about weaving.

Sorry! Hopefully this doesn't completely rework the two professions so far I think they're interesting just much more time consuming than say leatherworking. I still think this would time consuming because each bolt of cloth could take X amount of steps the bigger the bolts the longer the steps.
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