Six new Immortals!

Discussion of religion and the Immortals.
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Rias
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Six new Immortals!

Post by Rias »

Some new Immortals have been added to the "Immortals" helpfile/wiki page (just blurbs on the page's listing, no individual articles yet):

- Balastrossa the White Wyvern
- Bathal the Conqueror
- Hesutu the Father of Seasons
- Kurn the Ravager
- Ujaeio the Jester
- Yru the Soulreaper

I agonized over these way more than I should have (or maybe not - Immortals are a big deal). Some of them, I spent hours fretting over their names alone. (One I changed at least ten times, then went back to my original idea despite some lingering misgivings.) I also tried my hardest to ensure they all had at least a little nuance to them, some of which doesn't show through in their little blurbs on the main Immortals file. I hope to get some individual articles up for them soon(tm) but considering how long it took me just to be content with these little blurbs, it might be a while yet. Please feel free to ask questions here in this thread for the time being!
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Delphine
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Re: Six new Immortals!

Post by Delphine »

Hype! Big hype. So much hype, my laptop bluescreened the second this news dropped. It just couldn't handle it.

That aside (and thank you for the blurbs!), I'm curious as to the relationship between Bathal and Kurn. Is there any overlap in their domains? Do they play well together? Are they both Harbinger immortals?

Just curious for reasons(tm).
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Re: Six new Immortals!

Post by Maina »

Also very hype! I've been playing a follower of the Jester (as you know) so it's great to have a proper name now.

Q: Similar to Delphine's question - these all seem to be darker Immortals, so will they all be Harbinger-related?

Q: If these are all Harbinger Immortals, what makes them... Well. Not sure how to put it politely. What makes them more acceptable than the Blood God? What with the soul reaping and world destroying in particular.
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Re: Six new Immortals!

Post by Rias »

All six of these are Harbinger-material Immortals (as well as our longtime senior members, Malfant and Aranas).
Delphine wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 11:51 pm I'm curious as to the relationship between Bathal and Kurn. Is there any overlap in their domains? Do they play well together?
Bathal and Kurn are known to work together and have a complicated relationship. To give a simplified puny-mortal-interpretation nutshell tidbit on the matter: many of the stories give the impression that the more tactical and calculating Bathal considers Kurn to be a loose canon and a wildcard, and difficult to work with due to her frequent emotional whiplash. On the flip side, Kurn often feels used and manipulated by Bathal. But you can't always pick your coworkers or your friends, and people working in the same general field can grow on each other through shared projects and the camaraderie that can result from that. They're far from your storybook besties, but I think they'd see each other at a party and naturally buddy up despite the flaws in their relationship.
Maina wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 11:56 pm Q: If these are all Harbinger Immortals, what makes them... Well. Not sure how to put it politely. What makes them more acceptable than the Blood God? What with the soul reaping and world destroying in particular.
Kurn and Yru are two I hope to have a particularly generous dose of the mentioned nuance. As stated in Kurn's, she's resisting that prophesied fate. She's supposed to bring about the end of the world, but she doesn't want to. This doesn't prevent mortals from going to her for her "gifts", and part of the hope there is that maybe with a good dose of old-fashioned Mortal Meddling, her essence and fate might be changed. For Yru, uh ... I'm going to need to hammer out more of the details before I answer, I think. Suffice it to say for now that she's not just stealing souls and raising the undead for the evulz.

But the main reason the Blood God isn't Harbinger material is that the Blood Cult hasn't ever turned in an application. They don't seem to want in on that for some reason.

==========

Also, fun fact: Bogvaskr and Kurn are nemeses.
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Re: Six new Immortals!

Post by Rias »

A few other points I've been poked to bring up:

- The Harbingers as a society and their members won't be allowed in Shadgard. No exceptions. They are Mistral/Dominion only.
- Even on their own (regardless of whether someone is a Harbinger or not), most of these Immortals are not accepted in Shadgard. The exceptions would be the Jester and to a lesser extent Bathal. Hesutu and Malfant might be quietly, privately followed or worshiped by individual Shadgardians but it's likely to come up and cause some turbulence once it gets out (because it always gets out at some point). Any of the others would earn their adherents some serious trouble. (Note: This would include Aranas, and yes, we have at least one Aranas enthusiast in Shadgard at the moment, but we've been trying to hold off on Shadgard seriously responding to that until we have Mistral open as a place for such characters to go, and thus far we don't feel our hand has been forced. But please note: That it hasn't caused the individual any trouble thus far is a Game Thing, not a Lore Thing.)
- I'll reiterate that the Blood God and the Blood Cult were always meant as universal nasties and a secretive shady exclusive NPC-only faction that literally everyone else could come together and rally against. They're not out to make allies or connections with other groups, and they're not accepting applications. (Hint: if any ever tell you that they are, just think for a moment about why they're trying to get you to follow them to their bloody sacrificial altar for a meeting.)
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Re: Six new Immortals!

Post by Delphine »

Thank you for all the fun lore tidbits so far! And I hope I'm not about to be obnoxious, but I have more questions.

Who tasked Kurn with destroying the world?

How are Bathal and Kurn generally depicted? Do either of them have some sort of symbolism generally associated with them? Do their followers favor any colors in particular?

Bathal sort of sounds like he could very easily be the patron immortal of the Dominion or at the very least, favored by them as a whole. Is that a fair assumption?

Does Bathal have a nemesis?

It seems like most of the Harbinger immortals have a symbiotic type of relationship but are there any who don't necessarily like each other? I mean, I'm assuming they're not all having a tea party together and rather it's an allies of convenience sort of deal, but are there any in particular who are like, I don't know, "UGH, Aranas. Stop eating all the souls." Or whatever :lol:
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Re: Six new Immortals!

Post by Karjus »

Few questions!

Is there a particular reason that Bathal ended up infrequently worshipped/feels slighted enough to become a Harbinger patron?

Is there a particular race that Bathal is associated with?

Does Bathal have a presence in the Stormholdt Warrior's Guild, which allows him minor acceptance in Shadgard or is there another reason?

I'm kind of imaging Bathal from that little blurb as like a thinking man's fighter? That they're not a rager, but the sort who uses everything they have in their arsenal to achieve victory? Even if it means killing/sacrificing allies?
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Re: Six new Immortals!

Post by Rias »

I hope I'm not about to be obnoxious, but I have more questions.
Not at all. I love lore questions most, and the more I get, the happier I am!
Who tasked Kurn with destroying the world?
This goes back into the murky olden times about which little is now known. For now I'll give some incomplete info, as written and passed down by mortals in their various records and etc.; standard disclaimers that none of this is necessarily the whole or even partial truth. This is sketchy Old Lore.

It was Bogvaskr who tracked down Kurn and, after a very nasty (and epic) battle ending with Bogvaskr fleeing, he reported his discovery of this monstrously powerful daemon to the Prime Immortals. Vandin then identified the daemon as the one destined to bring an end to a doomed world. Unfortunately, no records have any further information about who might have set or predicted this destiny, nor what "a doomed world" means exactly. Naturally, none of the Immortals liked this ominous portent and set about trying to figure out how to A) hold off Kurn and B) un-doom the world so Kurn wouldn't have to bring about its end. And yes, some people do find it strange that a daemon would be tasked to end a world if it were already "doomed", and wonder whether that was just bad circular logic. That's cryptic Old Lore for you.
How are Bathal and Kurn generally depicted?
Bathal is usually depicted as an inhumanly tall figure with dark bronze skin, a lean figure, and a handsome face. He's often shown wearing heavy armor - he likes to get out there in the action when he can, not just command from afar. His armaments vary since as a tactician, he knows the value in finding the right tool for the job at hand. His expression is virtually always stoic and emotionless.

Kurn is known to take many different forms, most of them being massive horrifying beasts of wildly varying shapes and features. One of her most notable common themes is having multiple mouths all over her body filled with vicious teeth and, depending on the account, able to breathe one of fire, acidic bile, poisonous fumes, or all of those and more. Even in her humanoid depictions she retains her monstrous and bestial appearance, with a towering broad frame larger than any Giganti (and taller than Bathal), one or more pairs of sharp horns on her head, wide-slitted eyes, sharp claws on hands and feet, a combination of scales and thick fur along her body, short spines along her back, and her telltale extra mouths at the very least on her palms, abdomen, and feet.
Do either of them have some sort of symbolism generally associated with them? Do their followers favor any colors in particular?
Rain check.
Bathal sort of sounds like he could very easily be the patron immortal of the Dominion or at the very least, favored by them as a whole. Is that a fair assumption?
Yes, Bathal is very popular with the Dominion.
Does Bathal have a nemesis?
Not exactly a nemesis, but Aphraen is said to be the only one who could reasonably hope to stand up to Bathal in matters of war tactics even if the odds would still certainly be in Bathal's favor. Poor Aphraen, clashing with so many powerful Immortals. They really don't get the recognition they deserve.
It seems like most of the Harbinger immortals have a symbiotic type of relationship but are there any who don't necessarily like each other? I mean, I'm assuming they're not all having a tea party together and rather it's an allies of convenience sort of deal
Right, it's not exactly a group of close friends who love being around each other. The Harbingers is a multi-Immortal effort because they have much better chances of success together than alone, but that doesn't mean they all get along well. Aranas and Yru disagree over what to do with souls. Hesutu and Yru bicker because Hesutu doesn't love the undead with their circumventing the natural life cycle and ignoring many of the ravages and limitations of natural life. Balastrossa gets mad at Malfant for keeping some knowledge from her, and for him giving some out to mortals that should be kept secret. Pretty much everyone is a little unnerved by Hesutu's "all things must eventually end and be replaced" philosophy. Ujaeio has everyone on edge with "I'm not sure if I should be entertained and amused by them, annoyed by their antics and unpredictability, or worried about whatever might really be going on that we just can't see underneath all those layers." Bathal and Kurn get in trouble for eating all the popcorn as they watch all this unfold. (Not literally of course, but the point is that those two are pretty unique in having/being legitimate buddies within this group. Though Malfant and Aranas get along well enough, they're the more alien types of entities in this lineup and "buddying up" isn't really the kind of thing they'd do, or at least I wouldn't use that term. In the end, Balastrossa and Bathal are the ones putting the most effort into keeping this ragtag group together and as cohesive as possible, and it's no small effort.)
Is there a particular reason that Bathal ended up infrequently worshipped/feels slighted enough to become a Harbinger patron?
One contributing factor is that he got a bad rap as a "war god" and a lot of cultures, as they considered themselves more enlightened and less prone to such base concepts as war and violence (keep telling yourselves that ...), deliberately tried to put him out of sight to prove that. There are more specific reasons as well, but I'm not quite ready to put them to digital paper. Sorry for making you wait!
Is there a particular race that Bathal is associated with?
Khaldean, but it may not have always been that way.
Does Bathal have a presence in the Stormholdt Warrior's Guild, which allows him minor acceptance in Shadgard or is there another reason?
He and Kurn should definitely have a presence in Stormholdt now that they've been added to the game/world, but that's not why Bathal gets a pass in Shadgard. When it comes to these Harbinger Immortals, Bathal is arguably the most human-like and least creepy/occult. The "domination" bit could be a sticking point with some based on interpretation, but primarily he's a god of battlefield tactics and the like, and why shouldn't they get in on that too? He's not touting occult practices or spreading nether everywhere or messing with souls or advocating doom and gloom of some type or other. He's fine.
I'm kind of imaging Bathal from that little blurb as like a thinking man's fighter? That they're not a rager, but the sort who uses everything they have in their arsenal to achieve victory? Even if it means killing/sacrificing allies?
Yep. Bathal is an extraordinarily level-headed and calculating individual. Despite what some might assume when they hear "war god", Bathal is known to be exceptionally calm and reasonable. Your sadistic bloodlusting wargod just in it for the carnage and conflict, this ain't. He's all about the tactics, the strategy, and of course: the win. He is reasonable and civil, but he is not "nice" - he'll do whatever it takes to win. But he doesn't seem to be doing it to satisfy ego or over some petty matters. He doesn't gloat or get smug with his conquered enemies, and in fact often gives them the opportunity to join him or depart upon their defeat (when it wouldn't be obviously detrimental to his future efforts). If things don't go his way, he doesn't rage or send minions to their deaths in a fit or smash whatever he can find nearby; he just does what he can to analyze the situation and figure out what went wrong, works on an improved strategy, and figures out how to bounce back or do better next time.

All this said, he's not devoid of feeling or emotion (Kurn can certainly try his patience at times), and while he can and will order his troops into some very cold sacrificial moves in order to achieve victory, he does seem to care about those under his command and doesn't put them in harm's way carelessly or needlessly. He's even been known to both show mercy to surrendering enemies as well as ask for mercy for his own troops when he feels they've gotten into an unwinnable situation. Whether this is a display of compassion or just a loathing of wasted time and resources is up for debate.

==========

Another fun fact: "Ujaeio" isn't the Jester's real name. It was just what was written down by a devout adherent when they sacrificed and prayed fervently, supported by a large circle of other prominent adherents, to receive an answer to the question "What is your true name?" They weren't feeling like they were getting any answer and were inspired to believe that they'd be guided if they just started writing at random. The adherent later admitted that they didn't feel guided at all, but the name had caught on and was adopted by many others who wanted a name to give to an Immortal who was known to have countless masks and false identities, which could be rather confusing. If the Immortal minds this name's widespread adoption, they haven't made it known. Not everyone uses the name, some preferring to use the titles "the Jester" or "the Fool". Some argue over whether the "false" name or the "vague" titles should be used. It never seems to matter in the end. The Fool doesn't seem to care.
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Re: Six new Immortals!

Post by Delphine »

More questions! (Thank you for all the answers so far!)

How are you pronouncing Bathal? Ba-thal or Bath-al?

Kurn sort of strikes me as the type who would rather gleefully accept a human sacrifice, but I'm curious if Bathal would see that as a waste of time, waste of a potential resource, etc?

Building off of that, what are some offerings Bathal would find acceptable/pleasing?

So, my character often jokingly says, "Speak of demons and they appear," when she makes an appearance right after someone has been talking about her. But now I'm curious: is this an actual thing? Would little children be warned to not utter the name Kurn for fear this toothy daemon is going to materialize out of the shadows and eat them?
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Re: Six new Immortals!

Post by Onasaki »

How is the Fool normally depicted?
Is it plausible that one might have fallen into worshipping The Fool by being tricked into thinking it was someone else?
And what's the relationship between the Immortal of Illusions, the Immortal of lies, and the Immortal of secrets? (Ujaeio, Aranas, and Malfant respectively)
What kinds of colors does the Fool like? (I imagine bright, artistic colors)
And how well-known is the Jester? (Newish, oldish, always been, there's rumors he exists?)
And are there any animals, or specific symbols associated with the Fool? (I'd think cat, because the Cheshire Cat, and cats are definitely masters of illusion.)
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