Possible bug with guarding and Side By Side.

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Marcuson
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:29 am

Possible bug with guarding and Side By Side.

Post by Marcuson »

On Saturday, when a big group went to Valeria, Dylan got involved and decided to guard Valestrah. However, despite being defended, she got killed anyway. At the time, it all happened too quickly for me to figure out what happened, but looking back over the log later, the sequence of events seems pretty strange, and I'm left wondering if I misunderstood something or if there may be a potential bug with guarding when it comes to Side By Side. Take a look for yourself (I've gotten permission from Valestrah's player to share this part of the log):
[18:54:19] ** You intercept an attack on Valestrah! **
[18:54:19] A Liberi hellion kicks a clump of dust at Valestrah!
[18:54:19] A direct hit to the face!
[18:54:19] Valestrah draws back, squinting and blinking in an attempt to clear her eyes.
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] Valestrah is staggered!
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher helps a Liberi hellion maneuver in to make an attack!
[18:54:19] A Liberi hellion swings at Valestrah with his copper poleaxe!
[18:54:19] 59 hack damage (back)
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher follows up with an attack of her own!
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher slashes at Valestrah with her copper cutlass!
[18:54:19] 43 slash damage (back)
[18:54:19] Nasty slash severs the spine. *mortal*
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] [GROUP: Valestrah is no longer in the group.]
[18:54:19] Valestrah has been defeated.
I have a few questions about what happened:
  • Why didn't Dylan intercept the side-by-side attacks from the skirmishers?
  • Did Dylan get staggered with the dirtkick that he intercepted? (Why no stagger message, then?)
  • What ultimately caused Valestrah to die, and how do I not do that again when guarding someone?
  • Is there just something else that I'm missing/overlooking? (I'll be the first to admit that I'm not as familiar with the intricacies of mass combat.)
Last edited by Marcuson on Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Navi
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:07 am

Re: Possible bug with guarding and Side By Side.

Post by Navi »

I obviously don't have any say over mechanics, and what is or isn't a bug. However, from experience in CLOK, there were always circumstances when guarding a person could be bypassed. This was most commonly done through stealth. Without the rest of the log available, it's hard to say if this was the case. That being said. one person defending one person from several attackers is highly unrealistic, and even for the whole, "Cool of rule" thing, it's a little overboard to think you'd be able to fend off multiple attackers against a single target. Maybe if you were specialized as a guardian, since guard is in the name, but otherwise, maybe additional messaging stating that so and so bypasses so and so's guard to attack would make it more apparent that these attacks are meant to bypass guards. Either way, I do agree something should be done to either fix or clarify.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
User avatar
Marcuson
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:29 am

Re: Possible bug with guarding and Side By Side.

Post by Marcuson »

Navi wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 9:29 pmWithout the rest of the log available, it's hard to say if this was the case. That being said. one person defending one person from several attackers is highly unrealistic, and even for the whole, "Cool of rule" thing, it's a little overboard to think you'd be able to fend off multiple attackers against a single target.
I've gotten permission to share more of the log for better context (though I've had to remove the combat rolls). It seems clear to me from the log, however, that Dylan didn't intercept anything at all, nor was he staggered or in roundtime:
[18:54:17] ?Hreidun? heads west.
[18:54:17] You follow ?Hreidun?.
[18:54:17]
[18:54:17] [Southwest Valeria] (OutUr) Late Afternoon, Mild, Clear, Calm
[18:54:17] Standing tall and unscathed amidst the destruction of the ruins is a large gray stone cathedral, its stained glass windows for the most part intact. While it is clear there was much conflict around the magnificent edifice, no impact or blast seems to have gotten too close to the cathedral itself. To the north, the remains of a stone bridge can be seen extending only a few feet over the city canal.
[18:54:17] The area is mostly quiet.
[18:54:17] You also notice the corpse of a Liberi mythweaver, the corpse of a Liberi brigand (x2), a fine ash-hafted iron polehammer, a crude copper dagger (damaged), the corpse of a Liberi siren, an iron sling bullet (x5), a crude pine-hafted copper glaive (damaged), the corpse of a Liberi bastion, the corpse of a Liberi infiltrator, the corpse of Charlae, a crude copper cutlass (well-worn), the corpse of a Liberi bulwark, the corpse of a Liberi hellion, the corpse of Neyah, the corpse of a Liberi colossus, the corpse of Valestrah, the corpse of Lunessa, and the corpse of Adelina.
[18:54:17] Also here: a Liberi bastion (moderately wounded, heavily-armored, carrying a falchion and a shield), a Liberi skirmisher (lightly-armored, carrying a falchion) (x3), a Liberi skirmisher (lightly wounded, lightly-armored, carrying a cutlass), a Liberi skirmisher (badly wounded, tired, lightly-armored, carrying a cutlass, bloody), a Liberi skirmisher (lightly-armored, carrying a cutlass), a Liberi skirmisher (lightly-armored), a Liberi hellion (moderately-armored, carrying a glaive), a Liberi hellion (moderately wounded, moderately-armored, carrying a poleaxe), a Liberi hellion (moderately-armored, carrying a poleaxe), ?Hreidun? (GROUP LEADER, lightly-armored, disguised, smells of lavender, blurry, guarded by Black), Black (group, heavily-armored, carrying a polehammer, riding a large black charger with a cropped mane), Jamie (group, heavily-armored, carrying a longsword), Mikael (group, lightly-armored, carrying a polehammer), Keleran (group, heavily-armored, bloody), Maya (group, lightly-armored, carrying a rapier, bloody), Saciri (group Second, lightly-armored, carrying a rapier and a dagger, riding a dark-brown warhorse with a white blaze), Neyah (group, naked, guarded by Maya), Valestrah (group, naked, guarded by you), and Lunessa (group, guarded by Saciri).
[18:54:17] Obvious paths: west, north, east, a large gray stone cathedral.
[18:54:17]
[18:54:17] #
[18:54:17] |
[18:54:17] #-@-#
[18:54:17]
[18:54:17]
[18:54:17]
[18:54:18] sweep
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher hurls a pine-hafted copper javelin at Black!
[18:54:19] missed!
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] Black fends off an attack from a Liberi skirmisher with his polehammer!
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] (energy -1)
[18:54:19] Anticipating an attack from a Liberi skirmisher, you quickly tumble out of harm's way and spring to your feet!
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher hurls a pine-hafted copper javelin at Black!
[18:54:19] missed!
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher begins circling Black, looking for an opportunity to strike.
[18:54:19] a Liberi skirmisher manages to improve her balance and position.
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher helps a Liberi skirmisher maneuver in to make an attack!
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher kicks at Black with her unarmed strike!
[18:54:19] parried!
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] *** Black counterattacks!
[18:54:19] You help Black maneuver in to make an attack!
[18:54:19] Black punches at a Liberi skirmisher with his ridgeleather gauntlets!
[18:54:19] 8 bludgeon damage (95%) (right arm)
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] You follow up with an attack of your own!
[18:54:19] You slash at a Liberi skirmisher with your steel rapier! Melee(d550([1]x)):490 vs Dodge(d531(-2x)):192 = 298 (54%)
[18:54:19] 29 slash damage (55%) (abdomen, cuirass)
[18:54:19] (energy -5)
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher follows up with an attack of his own!
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher hacks at Black with his iron falchion!
[18:54:19] parried!
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] A large black charger with a cropped mane kicks at a Liberi skirmisher with its hooves!
[18:54:19] dodged!
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] A Liberi hellion swings a glaive at Black, feinting right!
[18:54:19] Black falls for the ruse, moving to avoid a blow that never came!
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] ** You intercept an attack on Valestrah! **
[18:54:19] A Liberi hellion kicks a clump of dust at Valestrah!
[18:54:19] A direct hit to the face!
[18:54:19] Valestrah draws back, squinting and blinking in an attempt to clear her eyes.
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] Valestrah is staggered!
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher helps a Liberi hellion maneuver in to make an attack!
[18:54:19] A Liberi hellion swings at Valestrah with his copper poleaxe!
[18:54:19] 59 hack damage (back)
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher follows up with an attack of her own!
[18:54:19] A Liberi skirmisher slashes at Valestrah with her copper cutlass!
[18:54:19] 43 slash damage (back)
[18:54:19] Nasty slash severs the spine. *mortal*
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] [GROUP: Valestrah is no longer in the group.]
[18:54:19] Valestrah has been defeated.
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] A Liberi hellion begins circling Black, looking for an opportunity to strike.
[18:54:19] a Liberi hellion manages to improve her balance and position.
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] Maya lowers her shoulder and charges at a Liberi bastion!
[18:54:19] a Liberi bastion avoids the charge!
[18:54:19]
[18:54:19] [Balance -5]
[18:54:19] You crouch and sweep a leg at a Liberi skirmisher! Off(d630([1]x)):276 vs Def(d610(-2x)):459 = -183 (-29%)
[18:54:19] a Liberi skirmisher avoids the sweep!
[18:54:19] Roundtime: 4 seconds.
I'm not discussing whether the mechanic is realistic or not. I want to know (a) if guarding is working as intended and (b) if there is something I did wrong so that I can prevent this from happening again.
Navi
Posts: 350
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 7:07 am

Re: Possible bug with guarding and Side By Side.

Post by Navi »

Ah, I just looked over the initial post once more. I had mistakenly thought the message about you defending meant that you had successfully intercepted. However, it looks like dirt kick can't be guarded against, and the mechanics of side by side also allowed it to bypass your guard. I'd be curious to know if all abilities allowed for this, or if it is specific to dirt kick. Also, that looked like a terrifying encounter.
wander without wanting, thrust into lands unknown. the shadows shift and change, and the worlds with them.
I'm not a soldier but I'm fighting
Can you hear me through the silence?
I won't give up 'cause there will be a day
We'll meet again
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